321448 demonstrator

[southern442]

looks quite good if it has been done to a decent standard.......alas no wifi.....but aircon is a big plus!

Just such a shame that no refurb program will even be signed let alone begin for another 3-4 years due to shambles at the Dft......and with Abellio running the units into the ground now god knows if the ROSCO will ever get the fleet done!

It's a shame about the appalling first class. Thank god for the addition of tables though.

 

[cj_1985]

looks quite good if it has been done to a decent standard.......alas no wifi.....but aircon is a big plus!

Just such a shame that no refurb program will even be signed let alone begin for another 3-4 years due to shambles at the Dft......and with Abellio running the units into the ground now god knows if the ROSCO will ever get the fleet done!

this is something I don't understand about people at the moment...
You don't NEED WiFi on every bus and train, and in every Argos store...

Shock horror, the world doesn't need to know what you're doing, where you are, what your eating, liking, poking every second of the day... fair enough, WiFi should be provided on all intercity routes... so that's WCML, ECML, MML, and GWML on 125mph service, and on the LHCS GEML and Chiltern Services...

You want WiFi on other routes/services, fine but You should be paying for access... and even then you shouldn't EXPECT it.

How often on a 321 operated service are you actually going to have enough space to check your email, Facebook twitter and whatever else on your mobile or tablet

 

[jon0844]

I am sure if a whole fleet was done, it would get WiFi but it's an unnecessary cost for a one off demonstrator.

 

[badassunicorn]

It looks nice inside, much better then the green/grey at the moment. Shame within a month it'll be trashed by burger king, coffee spills and other filth

 

[SprinterMan]

The whole train looks superb, even if 1st doesn't have arm rests. The standard seats look vastly superior to the ashbourne seating in the 321s and make even the newly-refurbished 321/4s look inferior. It is good to see that the air conditioning has been done properly, unlike the 317/7s. I personally am not that much of a fan of wifi. The joy of a train journey comes from looking out of the window and watching the world go by, and I personally find that wifi wrecks that :P I can see why commuters and long distance businesspeople would want it, but it is hardly a necessity.

Adam

 

[jopsuk]

wifi is a nice to have feature. It's becoming expected- as noted, most cafés now have it, many pubs do, but more importantly commuter coach services and even many buses have it- this is after all the competition for rail. Greater Anglia already have a commuter fleet with (free) wifi in the 379s- this is a popular feature, and I know people who've switched commuting route from Cambridge partly because of it (also cheaper, more direct to the City)

 

[df9901]

If I may chip in on the WiFi front. It's largely pointless now. The large majority of people travelling have smartphones with 3G, which can in turn be tethered if they need internet on a laptop. All train wifi does is uses mobile masts from antennae atop the train. So from using train wifi you might get *slightly* better signal than your phone thanks to external antennae, but aside from that it's identical. Barely anyone pays for train WiFi, almost all usage is free. And it costs a TOC hundreds of thousands to cover even the smaller intercity fleets with WiFi. On a commuter train therefore, it really is moot. Use 3G on your phone! Worth noting also, that there will be a pilot of 4G repeaters in trains, to provide fast, free, transparent connectivity via your phone.

 

[northwichcat]

Eversholt Rail unveiled its class 321 demonstrator to the press at Wabtec’s Doncaster plant on October 30.

The train leasing company has installed 2 different passenger interiors, metro or suburban along with a new look first class with new leather seats and power sockets, to 321448 so that passengers on the Greater Anglia network will be able to evaluate and offer feedback on the design and their for future refurbishment of the fleet.

Eversholt hope to demonstrate that a high specification refurbishment of older rolling stock is not only significantly cheaper than purchasing new trains, but can offer passengers a ‘new train’ feel that will enhance their travelling experience.

The project cost for the demonstrator class 321 is £4-5 million and it will go from Doncaster to Ilford depot in November before entering passenger service, for a 12 month period, in December.

In addition the fleet will also receive new a new traction package including a new transformer, individual inverter drives and new AC traction motors. The demonstrator 321 will have this fitted next year and undergo a series of tests before entering passenger service in December 2015.

Work on refurbishing the entire fleet of 94 sets will commence in 2015 with an envisaged completion date of 2019.

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/11/01/countdown-to-321-demonstrator-entering-passenger-service/

Warning: the image in the story shows blue, purple and green seats and looks terrible. I imagine that's to show the different options rather than being a new look for trains.

 

[jon0844]

I'd like to check this out, so as soon as anyone can provide actual data of when it is in service and the times, I'd be most grateful (as indeed I am sure many others will be).

I wonder if GA will actually Tweet times, as it must be equally keen to get feedback.

 

[stut]

Still with the 2+3 seating? Shame.

 

[Mojo]

Still with the 2+3 seating? Shame.

There are two different seating layouts on board; Metro which features 2+2 seats and suburban which features 3+2.

Not sure what everyone's problem is with 3+2 seating. It's better to offer customers more seating availability during peak hours, and when the trains aren't busy (which is most of the time) then you can spread out about. People often here say that they never see people sitting in the middle seats; I can only assume they either never travel on the really busy trains, or they travel in parts of the country where everyone is rather portly as I often (or have often in the past) travelled on Chiltern 165s, Greater Anglia 315s/321s/360s or on the A Stocks on the Underground, where every seat was frequently taken.

 

[anthony263]

It has got some 2 + 2 seating as shown from the link I posted on the other trhead for 321448.

 

[edwin_m]

This seems to be announcing that the whole fleet will be re-tractioned, which suggests either that the ROSCO is very courageous or they have a long term hire contract. My understanding is that replacing traction packages is difficult to justify on the power and maintenance savings alone.

 

[northwichcat]

This seems to be announcing that the whole fleet will be re-tractioned, which suggests either that the ROSCO is very courageous or they have a long term hire contract. My understanding is that replacing traction packages is difficult to justify on the power and maintenance savings alone.

The life expectancy of an EMU is supposed to be 40 years assuming it has a decent refurbishment at some point during those 40 years, so the 321s should last until around 2030.

Note Porterbrook have unveiled extensive refurbishment options for the older 319s for once they are released from Thameslink.

 

[stut]

Not sure what everyone's problem is with 3+2 seating. It's better to offer customers more seating availability during peak hours, and when the trains aren't busy (which is most of the time) then you can spread out about. People often here say that they never see people sitting in the middle seats; I can only assume they either never travel on the really busy trains, or they travel in parts of the country where everyone is rather portly as I often (or have often in the past) travelled on Chiltern 165s, Greater Anglia 315s/321s/360s or on the A Stocks on the Underground, where every seat was frequently taken.

It's not my (ever expanding) gut that's the problem here - it's my shoulders. In 2+2 seating, they're usually broader than a single seat - in 2+3, they're way over. So either I'm squeezing someone right in, or I'm hanging off the edge on one buttock.

Perhaps it's a question of appropriateness - when you see 2+3 seating to Shenfield, fair enough. When you see LM using it to Crewe... Not so much.

The seats do look higher and more upright, however, with fewer bays, which is good. The current 321 seats are low, with very angled backs, making for (IME) a very uncomfortable seating position, and a far too intimate tangling of legs with those opposite (particularly for us over-6-footers). Attempting to read while in one of those seats is a fast track to the chiropractor.

 

[northwichcat]

It's not my (ever expanding) gut that's the problem here - it's my shoulders. In 2+2 seating, they're usually broader than a single seat - in 2+3, they're way over. So either I'm squeezing someone right in, or I'm hanging off the edge on one buttock.

I'm 5ft 11 and a slim build and find that 3+2 seating seems to leave no where for my arms to go unless I'm in an aisle seat.

The ex-FNW 150s and c2c class 357s (with 3+2 seating) have the same seats as the ex-Wessex 150s (with 2+2 seating.) However, the latter being 2+2 allows for a total of 6 arm rests across 4 seats instead of the extra seat and makes a big difference to how squashed in you feel.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I very much look forward to ginger's expert analysis/review of this demonstrator in a few weeks time.

 

[jon0844]

I very much look forward to ginger's expert analysis/review of this demonstrator in a few weeks time.

By then, there will be dust, fingerprints and scuffs from shoes - so I doubt the review will be very good.

 

[Electrostar]

Think I prefer the seats with the grab rails as seen here (not my pics)

http://railpicturelibrary.zenfolio.com/blog/2013/10/first-look-at-321-demonstrator

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yep metro layout looks better to me. The other day on a 333 3+2 as i walked down train i was thrusting my asse into people.

 

[Domh245]

It's interesting to see that they have kept the "old style" light clusters. Most refurbs have the LED Front/Rear Marker light and Traditional headlamp. Maybe they will do this when they re-do the "exterior" (traction package and auxiliaries)

 

[tom1649]

On a purely selfish note, I hope they don't replace the DC motors. The idea of having a 321 whirring around on AC motors just doesn't seem 'right' to me. Of course they'll be quieter and more efficient, which will be better for your average passenger, but I think they'll lose some character as a result.

 

[306024]

Still with the 2+3 seating? Shame.

Not if you are one of the 1,000s who commute into Liverpool St every day. At least with 3+2 seating most people have a choice whether to stand or not.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's interesting to see that they have kept the "old style" light clusters. Most refurbs have the LED Front/Rear Marker light and Traditional headlamp. Maybe they will do this when they re-do the "exterior" (traction package and auxiliaries)

They have changed the clusters though. They aren't the standard Wipac BR cluster, instead they have round front marker lights.

 

[stut]

Yep metro layout looks better to me. The other day on a 333 3+2 as i walked down train i was thrusting my asse into people.

It does still appear to be the same narrow seating, however, with no additional spacing - just an extra-wide aisle.

 

[Starmill]

Has the demonstrator been fitted with air conditioning where it previously didn't exist?

If only the 319s could be refurbished to this high a standard before they're sent up here

It looks like the only things that haven't been replaced are the PIS/Destination screens (are they a newer edition or original?) and doors between coaches.

And no tables in the 2+2 in Standard?

 

[nxea321446]

yes the demonstrator has been fitted with air conditioning and the pis system was fitted between 2006-2007

 

[samuelmorris]

I can see the 321s lasting far more than 40 years total with this refurbishment.
The 315s had a very basic refurbishment which didn't change the traction package at all (apart from perhaps a bit of needed maintenance), and didn't really change the body in principle either, and by the time they'll be ousted from the GEML in favour of 345s they'll be up to 38 years old - the WA units may last longer depending on what the stock plan is for that route under TfL. With talk of them going onto the valley lines, they'll be running at 40+ on largely original equipment.

Meanwhile, the oldest 321s will be over 30 by the time they receive this refurbishment, and it's pretty extensive - wholesale interior replacement, traction package replacement too. If the basic refurb given the 315s in the mid 00s can see them run for a further 15 years +, the 321s should achieve at least 20 from this, possibly 25 - they are after all, now 'energy-efficient', air-conditioned and DDA compliant after these upgrades, so the only reason to replace them would be mechanical wear or some unforeseen shakeup of rail vehicles as a whole, provided the traction package provided proves reliable. If it's successful, I wouldn't be surprised to see 321s still about in the 2040s.

It's kind of a shame to see this is still going to be such a long time coming, two years before the second unit in service, or any change in traction package according to the article, and 6 years for full fleet conversion, though converting 94 units is understandably a slow process.

Lights may be changed, but I'm glad the light clusters are staying. Few seem to agree when I mention it but I think the 321 is actually one of the best looking BREL units of all - perhaps my opinion's tainted by familiarity

There's no getting around it, 3+2 seating is cramped. Even with regular build passengers it does constrict your arms somewhat, and in winter people wearing coats makes it a really tight squeeze. For my <15 minute journey from Upminster to West Ham on a 357 every day, if there's only middle seats available I'm happy to stand. Were I going more than 20 minutes I'd probably take the seat, as I regularly do when travelling on a 321 from Liverpool Street to Shenfield. I've not really thought to evaluate which is more cramped in that scenario - it seems like the 357 possibly is slightly, but I doubt there's much in it. Not going as far out as Chelmsford and mostly travelling peak it's been a while since I've had to sit in a group of 3 on a 360, so I can't compare those.

Not changing the info displays is unsurprising and ultimately the right decision, but still a little disappointing imo. The existing ones do the job (so no reason to waste money changing them), but they do very much seem 'tacked on' on the existing units when compared to the natively installed units on Desiros and Electrostars (though the failure rate of the displays on the latter is terrible), and that feel is unlikely to change in the new interior I suspect. Could be worse, the 315 displays now being fitted are like cheap knockoffs even of the ones fitted to the 321s - right from new the text has been jittery and very blurry on the units I've seen it on.

Traction motor noise is kind of a pointless discussion, but up until relatively recently I'd branded AC traction sounds 'more interesting' primarily because of the non-linear relationship between speed and pitch. Latterly though I'm starting to admit I will miss the DC motor noise - when I was young it was 'the noise a train makes' and it will be odd for it to be missing from the railways in general. That said, modern AC motors are typically quiet at high speed - the traction motors currently fitted to 321s certainly are not. For the regular non-enthusiast passenger experience, it's an improvement.

 

[jon0844]

I've always thought the screens fitted to the 317/321s and elsewhere are susceptible to power surges/fluctuations - and that's why so many soon fail, or get corrupted.

It does seem that they must be very cheap and have a very poor warranty, as some failed when Wagn fitted them to the 317/1s even before they got the software to make them do anything more than show the time!! That would have to be a record!

Still, if they can fix the power supply and update the software that drives the screens, I'm sure the screens themselves could remain in the trains.. No need to change them unnecessarily (I do hope that they have at least ensured that they're all working though when putting the demonstrator into service!).

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought they were going to try longitudal seating in the 'Metro' layout?