First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[dosxuk]

It's now happening with buses mirrors there being painted yellow so people of a certain height don't hit there heads

This has nothing to do with applying common liveries.

 

[sprinterguy]

More ignorance from the general public I guess.. in that they don't realise the trains would need repainting periodically anyway, and I'm sure Virgin has given the 390s a new coat of paint/vinyls already during their operation.

I'm not sure that the Pendolinos will have been repainted to date. The modern paint systems that are used on rolling stock produce a finish that is good for ten to fifteen years, which is why in many cases the Regional Railways liveries hung around for so long after privatisation and why BR Trainload Freight liveries are still visible on many active freight locos even today.

I've certainly never noticed any of the original fifty three Pendolinos looking notably cleaner than any other members of the fleet as you would expect if they had been put through a repaint process. However the age of the Pendolinos, at around ten years old, means that they probably are coming up to the stage where a repaint would be a good idea in the next five years or so.

 

[ainsworth74]

I thought they'd actually been repainted as part of the lengthening/overhauls they're going through right now. Though I'm not sure where I heard that from so it's quite possibly wrong.

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought they'd actually been repainted as part of the lengthening/overhauls they're going through right now. Though I'm not sure where I heard that from so it's quite possibly wrong.

Given that the lengthened sets still carry all the same dirt over the bodysides and roof that the nine carriage sets have accumulated, and that the two new carriages in the set are immediately identifiable through being dramatically cleaner than the rest of the train then I rather doubt it.

 

[ainsworth74]

Given that the lengthened sets still carry all the same dirt over the bodysides and roof that the nine carriage sets have accumulated, and that the two new carriages in the set are immediately identifiable through being dramatically cleaner than the rest of the train then I rather doubt it.

Right well perhaps I dreamed it then

 

[notoemt]

Not been keeping up with all the tooing and froing but I was reading in the paper today that First Group's increase in passenger numbers of 15% is going to be down to reducing anytime tickets by 15%. This was attributed to the head honcho? Is this actually true? I had to read it several times - it sounded wee bit far fetched. Do they actually have evidence to show that reducing anytime ticket prices encourages more people to travel? Personally speacking a 15% reduction is not enough to encourage me to buy an anytime ticket. A reduction in the region of 50 - 60% possibly.

 

[David10]

I thought they'd actually been repainted as part of the lengthening/overhauls they're going through right now.

The Pendolinos retain their original paintwork as do the Voyagers.

 

[Eagle]

The Pendolinos retain their original paintwork as do the Voyagers.

Including those Voyagers that are now with XC (who, because they simply vinyled over their predecessors' colours, managed to do a full fleet relivery in well under a year).

 

[Lee W]

Re the yellow mirrors on buses I was thinking this was a discussion about awareness etc

 

[Whistler40145]

Do you mean for Health & Safety?

 

[HH]

Not been keeping up with all the tooing and froing but I was reading in the paper today that First Group's increase in passenger numbers of 15% is going to be down to reducing anytime tickets by 15%. This was attributed to the head honcho? Is this actually true? I had to read it several times - it sounded wee bit far fetched. Do they actually have evidence to show that reducing anytime ticket prices encourages more people to travel? Personally speacking a 15% reduction is not enough to encourage me to buy an anytime ticket. A reduction in the region of 50 - 60% possibly.

Which paper? Surely the 15% would only apply to anytime travellers, who form 20% of the total, from what was said earlier. So that's a 3% overall uplift. That also implies an elasticity of -1. If so, why not drop them by 20%? Possibly they are claiming some sort of knock-on effect caused by the headline price coming down. That would sound a little far-fetched; I mean if the price drops from £300 to £255, does that make it sound cheap?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do wonder why the RMT is so supportive of SRB though. Has Richard given a donation to the union or something?

I suspect it's because they have been a pushover at the negotiating table.

 

[Stats]

Not been keeping up with all the tooing and froing but I was reading in the paper today that First Group's increase in passenger numbers of 15% is going to be down to reducing anytime tickets by 15%. This was attributed to the head honcho? Is this actually true? I had to read it several times - it sounded wee bit far fetched. Do they actually have evidence to show that reducing anytime ticket prices encourages more people to travel? Personally speacking a 15% reduction is not enough to encourage me to buy an anytime ticket. A reduction in the region of 50 - 60% possibly.

I'm sure FirstGroup have said that the growth will come from attracting people on to off-peak services. As I understand it the 15% reduction of Anytime tickets is partly to reduce the perception of the high price of rail tickets to non-users and partly to reduce the massive gap between off-peak and Anytime tickets

 

[Skimble19]

Including those Voyagers that are now with XC (who, because they simply vinyled over their predecessors' colours, managed to do a full fleet relivery in well under a year).

Indeed, you may notice under the dirt that the roofs are still in Virgin Red

 

[Pen Mill]

I'm sure FirstGroup have said that the growth will come from attracting people on to off-peak services. As I understand it the 15% reduction of Anytime tickets is partly to reduce the perception of the high price of rail tickets to non-users and partly to reduce the massive gap between off-peak and Anytime tickets

That is true , O'Toole said that at the select committee enquiry.

 

[All Line Rover]

That is true , O'Toole said that at the select committee enquiry.

I don't think it will work. £250 for Manchester to London still sounds incredibly expensive (because it is still incredibly expensive!), and also is still more expensive than the Anytime fare via the Midland Main Line (currently priced at £211.50).

Reduce it to £199 or more realistically £149, then car travellers may consider the train.

 

[HSTEd]

The marginal costs of running the train even at current loadings can't possibly be that high.

Althoguh we have huge train crews and staffs for only relatively small trains that go relatively slowly.

Hopefully HS2 should help with this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Pendolinos retain their original paintwork as do the Voyagers.

I was wondering how far technology in the vinyl cladding industry has progressed to allow this type of coating to replace painted surfaces, without the adhesion problems that afflicted this method in the very early days of usage on railway coaches.

 

[jon0844]

If flying, what's the 'walk up' fare?

 

[ainsworth74]

If flying, what's the 'walk up' fare?

If you can get to Heathrow for the 1740 BA flight to Manchester I'm seeing a price of £304 on their website. If that's a bite too soon then the 2130 BA flight is £107. So if you literally have to go now I'd suggest the train if you can delay for a few hours then flying could still be cheaper.

All the above are one way in economy.

 

[jon0844]

There is of course another issue for flying. I can get on the 1654 to KGX now and over to Euston and every 20 minutes get a train to Manchester (maybe not on a Sunday though?).

If going to Heathrow, I need that extra security clearance and check in time, and to get to the airport of course (even with HEX, that will add a fair bit of time and cost £25 or so) and must also consider what I am carrying. And at Manchester airport, I don't know how much it costs to get into town by train or taxi.

Flying would need to be a lot cheaper for me.

 

[Pen Mill]

I don't think it will work. £250 for Manchester to London still sounds incredibly expensive (because it is still incredibly expensive!), and also is still more expensive than the Anytime fare via the Midland Main Line (currently priced at £211.50).

Reduce it to £199 or more realistically £149, then car travellers may consider the train.

I wasn't disputing whether it would work or not.
However , I do take issue with your fare assumptions.

An off-peak return Manchester-London, which is what Mr O'T was talking about is £74.
Perfectly acceptable to me without doing any research on splits etc.which I would normally do.

 

[Aictos]

As I said earlier, HST's had three distinct liveries between 1976-1996. BR Blue was initially all over but was supplanted by blue and grey after less than 10 years. That was further supplanted by NSE and Regional Railways liveries in the mid eighties.

Virgin' largely unchanged livery at 11 years old is positively ancient, even by BRs standards.

Pardon the pendant view BUT as far as I remember HSTs have never carried Regional Railways or NSE livery, all it carried to my knowledge was:

BR Blue Grey
InterCity Executive
InterCity Swallow

I've never heard of any HST in BR days being painted in any livery but these!

 

[Whistler40145]

BR HSTs never carried Network SouthEast or Regional Railways liveries.

 

[Class 33]

Within the next week or so, the train booking websites will allow booking for Sunday December 9th and onwards. It will be interesting to see what they state is the train operator, "train operator currently unknown"?

 

[All Line Rover]

I wasn't disputing whether it would work or not.
However , I do take issue with your fare assumptions.

An off-peak return Manchester-London, which is what Mr O'T was talking about is £74.
Perfectly acceptable to me without doing any research on splits etc.which I would normally do.

I'm not sure if I misunderstand your post, but the fare reductions First are talking about apply only to Anytime fares, which for Manchester to London is currently £296 so will go down to around £250. The Off-Peak fares will remain unchanged (except for the yearly RPI+x%), which I agree are excellent value for money if you can be flexible with your travel times!

 

[MCR247]

Within the next week or so, the train booking websites will allow booking for Sunday December 9th and onwards. It will be interesting to see what they state is the train operator, "train operator currently unknown"?

And what about Virgin only etc tickets?

 

[Whistler40145]

Hmm, it's going to be interesting regarding ticketing.

 

[Stats]

Tickets for travel after the franchise renewal date, including Advances, are already available and the operator is shown as Virgin Trains and Advances are "only valid when travelling exclusively on Virgin Trains".

Yes, I know they'll be valid on the train regardless of the operator but when you hear some of the nonsense that people already spout it won't half lead to some confusion.

 

[bnm]

As I said earlier, HST's had three distinct liveries between 1976-1996. BR Blue was initially all over but was supplanted by blue and grey after less than 10 years. That was further supplanted by NSE and Regional Railways liveries in the mid eighties.

Virgin' largely unchanged livery at 11 years old is positively ancient, even by BRs standards.

Pardon the pendant view BUT as far as I remember HSTs have never carried Regional Railways or NSE livery, all it carried to my knowledge was:

BR Blue Grey
InterCity Executive
InterCity Swallow

I've never heard of any HST in BR days being painted in any livery but these!

My apologies, those first two sentences of my post should have been separate paragraphs with the second being clearer that I was referring to other stock on the network. I am totally aware that HSTs never carried NSE or RR liveries.

Oh, while we're at it, it's pedant not pendant.

 

[Whistler40145]

So if by then First Group are the operator, I expect they have to accept advance tickets saying Virgin Trains only?