Gold card refused replacement

[AlterEgo]

I know this isn't remotely helpful, but I do believe by hook or by crook you can convince FGW to give you a replacement. You may need to jump through a lot of hoops and do a lot of pleading, though. I really do not advise a militant or aggressive approach, or any mention of Watchdog or the Daily Mail (these words are red rags to a bull to many people, I'm afriad...!)

 

[MikeWh]

There is no difference in price :cry:

My apologies. That's not the case for ordinary tickets and I wrongly assumed that there would be a cheaper season as well.

 

[Missburty]

I know this isn't remotely helpful, but I do believe by hook or by crook you can convince FGW to give you a replacement. You may need to jump through a lot of hoops and do a lot of pleading, though. I really do not advise a militant or aggressive approach, or any mention of Watchdog or the Daily Mail (these words are red rags to a bull to many people, I'm afriad...!)

Thanks Alterego

I work for Ofcom so do appreciate the value of staying polite yet firm at all times. I actually deal with a lot of complaint letters myself so I won't mention The Daily Mail.

 

[Old Timer]

Thanks Alterego

I work for Ofcom so do appreciate the value of staying polite yet firm at all times. I actually deal with a lot of complaint letters myself so I won't mention The Daily Mail.

AS the French say..."A drop of honey catches more flies than a barrel of vinegar"

 

[tannedfrog]

I can't believe how unsympathetic some of you guys are

Are you all RPIs or what? The poor girl just politely asked for some help

 

[DaveNewcastle]

"A drop of honey catches more flies than a barrel of vinegar"

An EXCELLENT quote!

You've brought a hearty laugh to end my weary day!! I hope Missburty is equally amused and encouraged. (I'm signing off now after that)

 

[Old Timer]

I hope Missburty is equally amused and encouraged. (I'm signing off now after that)

That was the intent.

I can't believe how unsympathetic some of you guys are

Are you all RPIs or what? The poor girl just politely asked for some help

Which she has been given. There is nothing to be done when she has already had a replacement. What do you suggest ?

That everyone tells her how aful FGW are and how badly she has been treated ?

The conditions of issue are there for a reason. The failure of a person to read them is hardly grounds for claiming dispensation ?

What would you have people do ? Tell her she has a realistic chance of success ? Build her hopes up only for them to be dashed ?

Tell her to victimise herself and accuse FGW of being unfair and uncaring ?

 

[Missburty]

I can't believe how unsympathetic some of you guys are

Are you all RPIs or what? The poor girl just politely asked for some help

Thank you. After a particularly rubbish letter from FGW i was starting to feel slightly disheartened

What's an RPI?

 

[asylumxl]

Thank you. After a particularly rubbish letter from FGW i was starting to feel slightly disheartened

What's an RPI?

Revenue Protection Inspector

 

[AlterEgo]

What's an RPI?

Revenue Protection Inspector.

Although that's neither here nor there!

 

[Oswyntail]

I realise that, yet again, we have an indefensible rule in the rule book, so all the quotes are correct, but why is no one questioning it? Yes, the OP is unfortunate to have lost the bit of paste card twice in one year, but she has still paid for the provision of a service, the issuers have a record of that, yet they are effectively refusing to provide the service, hiding, as usual, behind what some might consider to be an unfair condition. Even if there were two crime numbers they would not issue a second replacement. And the reason, as suggested here? Because photocards do not get rigorously checked? Is that sufficient reason to deprive a customer of what she has paid for? Why are photocards, in that case, required?

 

[RJ]

I can't believe how unsympathetic some of you guys are

Are you all RPIs or what? The poor girl just politely asked for some help

I'm very sympathetic indeed. I've never been an RPI, but foiled season ticket fraud to the tune of £18,000 during the short time I worked with tickets. A couple of times, somebody had been using someone else's "lost" season ticket. Carelessness costs money - there is already leeway built into the T&Cs but I don't think it's fair that a TOC should stand to lose thousands of pounds more than once because someone repeatedly loses their season ticket. Perhaps some sort of travel insurance should be considered?

 

[Old Timer]

I realise that, yet again, we have an indefensible rule in the rule book, so all the quotes are correct, but why is no one questioning it? Yes, the OP is unfortunate to have lost the bit of paste card twice in one year, but she has still paid for the provision of a service, the issuers have a record of that, yet they are effectively refusing to provide the service, hiding, as usual, behind what some might consider to be an unfair condition. Even if there were two crime numbers they would not issue a second replacement. And the reason, as suggested here? Because photocards do not get rigorously checked? Is that sufficient reason to deprive a customer of what she has paid for? Why are photocards, in that case, required?

Explain just ONE reason why this should apply to Railways ???

She has already had ONE replacement free. How many more ?

Tell you what lets all buy a season ticket then continue claiming to have lost it so we can give our work colleagues the "lost" ones . eh ?

Until and unless we move to a fully automated card system this will always happen, Frankly the specious arguments on here scream out for TOCs to simply say "right, we will be customer friendly so a guaranteed seat, as many fre free replacement tickets but you have to book in adavance and no travel booking on the day unless there are spare seats. Oh and no need for any personal responsibility as we will clean your bottom for you as well "

Simples.

Customer care in seconds. But I doubt the complainants on here will be happy with that either ?

 

[RJ]

Oh and no need for any personal responsibility as we will clean your bottom for you as well

Would you like some tissue

 

[Old Timer]

Would you like some tissue

As a Flying Blue Platinum member, you can take advantage of unrivalled privileges. Your exclusive Platinum card is your guarantee of the highest level of care and attention at all times. You have access to the most preferential treatment and services offered by our SkyTeam partners, and by both our other airline and non-airline partners.
Do you really think I do ? Surely THAT is what the FA is for

 

[Missburty]

Explain just ONE reason why this should apply to Railways ???

She has already had ONE replacement free. How many more ?

Tell you what lets all buy a season ticket then continue claiming to have lost it so we can give our work colleagues the "lost" ones . eh ?

?

Dear Old Timer

SHE had a replacement on HER LAST season ticket. Not this years. People lose stuff - it happens.

I am happy to attend a fraud interview. I wasn't invited to one
I am happy to pay a replacement fee - this wasn't offered as an option

I have paid for continued service until June 2012 and until I have the opportunity to prove I haven't 'sold' my ticket to colleague/husband/cat I do feel this is an unfair rule. If fraud is suspected then I would expect a fair hearing/ Normal people are finding it difficult to afford the extortionate fares on the main commuter routes. If there was another option I would take it.

I have thanked you all for your advice and will take this through the channels i need to.

 

[Old Timer]

Dear Old Timer

SHE had a replacement on HER LAST season ticket. Not this years. People lose stuff - it happens.

I am happy to attend a fraud interview. I wasn't invited to one
I am happy to pay a replacement fee - this wasn't offered as an option

I have paid for continued service until June 2012 and until I have the opportunity to prove I haven't 'sold' my ticket to colleague/husband/cat I do feel this is an unfair rule. If fraud is suspected then I would expect a fair hearing/ Normal people are finding it difficult to afford the extortionate fares on the main commuter routes. If there was another option I would take it.

I have thanked you all for your advice and will take this through the channels i need to.

Fine but how exactly do you intend to prove a negative ?

And in fairness DaveNewcastle made a relevant quote.

 

[jon0844]

The rules are pretty clear, one refund in any 12 month period so it matters not if you had renewed the ticket in that time.

After the first claim, I'd have considered insurance on such a valuable item and how could you not report it to the police? What if you were covered on a household policy?

I would say that I am surprised there is no system to blacklist a season ticket, by serial numbers on the magstrip. It seems this can't be done, which is mad as gates could have a list of stolen cards and that would be it. The their would need to manually show the ticket all the time otherwise and should occasionally be checked thoroughly.

But that doesn't happen, so treat the ticket like it was £4000 cash.

 

[richw]

Just an alternative idea. Do you have any kind of content insurance? If yes Does it have a personal belongings cover, and to what maximum value? My Home contents insurance, covers personal belongings outside of the house, when carried in person such as tickets, laptops, mobile phones, cameras etc up to the value of £5000 per calendar year.
Just another line worth looking into!

 

[ajdunlop]

Another problem that would be fixed by smartcards. Passenger reports card lost, new one issued at ticket office, old one disabled, job done.

 

[ess]

FCC used to suggest claiming on home insurance in these circumstances. However home insurance often has a limit for 'cash' which a rail ticket could be considered as (according to some insurance companies)

 

[NLC1072]

The bottom line is;

First duplicate can be done in any circumstance/with crime number

Second duplicate within 12 months of the last must have a crime number with it unless the first did.

Both times the applicant will be charged a £20 duplicate fee and will be asked to sign a duplicate form with all the legal "if you find the old card please hand it in....fraud, fraud, fraud..."

If there is one duplicate within 12 months, either must posses a crime reference number
If there are already two duplicates within that 12 month period, under no circumstances can the train company issue another until the first has passed 12 months.

If a clerk issued another duplicate for a customer without a crime reference number or they applicant already had two, they may find themselves being investigated...

This all gets logged on to "T.I.M.S" which is our database and will automatically flag any instances on a duplicate within a customers profile.

Hope this helps

 

[Paul Kelly]

I realise that, yet again, we have an indefensible rule in the rule book, so all the quotes are correct, but why is no one questioning it?

Because it wouldn't be helpful in this situation? The OP was asking for advice on a specific problem. People gave pragmatic advice based on the circumstances and rules as they stand. If the discussion had instead gone off on a tangent about the unfairness of the rules it would be confusing and irrelevant. But you could of course start a new thread for that if you wanted.

 

[Oswyntail]

Explain just ONE reason why this should apply to Railways ???

She has already had ONE replacement free. How many more ?

Tell you what lets all buy a season ticket then continue claiming to have lost it so we can give our work colleagues the "lost" ones . eh ?

Until and unless we move to a fully automated card system this will always happen, Frankly the specious arguments on here scream out for TOCs to simply say "right, we will be customer friendly so a guaranteed seat, as many fre free replacement tickets but you have to book in adavance and no travel booking on the day unless there are spare seats. Oh and no need for any personal responsibility as we will clean your bottom for you as well "

Simples.

Customer care in seconds. But I doubt the complainants on here will be happy with that either ?

As I typed in my post, I could imagine exactly this response from OT (though without the childishness). It is the absolute standard combination of "It's in the rule book so must be right" with "Customers are always out to defraud us" approach that he always churns out. But, at the heart of the issue is the inability of a TOC to identify a fraudulent season ticket, which is pathetic. Why cannot the magnetic stripe be identified and intercepted; why cannot the mismatch between a photocard and the ticket be picked up? If neither of those processes is thought economically viable, then other security measures are available. The customer is identifiable to the TOC, more so than a purchaser of a single-journey ticket; she has purchased a service for a period of one year and is being denied that. That is what is "simples".
Ever lost a bank card, OT? Were you denied a replacement?

 

[jon0844]

Another problem that would be fixed by smartcards. Passenger reports card lost, new one issued at ticket office, old one disabled, job done.

Definitely. It was quite amazing to discover that if a season ticket is lost or stolen, the TOC can't 'kill' the ticket at all.

Sure, it may get picked up with a manual inspection that compares the ticket against the photocard (but it's probably easier to simply fake a photocard as they're pretty rubbish), but I've never had my season checked to this degree in 8-9 years.

Considering how many people jump to the conclusion that a passenger is often up to no good (and probably with good cause!), it's funny to think that every single Gold Card owner - with a ticket that may be worth thousands - could quite easily get a second for a partner and stand little to no chance of being caught.

For such a high value item, if you aren't covered on your contents insurance, I am sure you can manually add it for an extra premium - and no doubt a fairly high excess. I'd say it would be worth it the second you have to make your first claim!

 

[LexyBoy]

Another problem that could be fixed by smartcards. Passenger reports card lost, new one issued at ticket office, old one disabled, job done.

Fixed that for you

As things stand,

24. Lost, stolen or mislaid tickets
A ticket is your evidence of your right to make a rail journey and it is your
responsibility to keep it safe. If you lose or mislay a ticket or a Smartcard or it is stolen, it will not be replaced nor will any of the cost be refunded. However, Train Companies will replace certain Season Tickets in the circumstances set out in Condition 34.

You will not, in any circumstances, be issued with more than two duplicate Season Tickets in any 12 month period.

 

[RJ]

I realise that, yet again, we have an indefensible rule in the rule book, so all the quotes are correct, but why is no one questioning it?

Here we go again! The OP was not asking for a general discussion on the fairness of the rules, they were asking for some specific advice. If you really wish to start a (IMO pointless) debate of that nature, feel free to do so in another thread!

 

[Barn]

With the 12 month system, rather than the old 'no two refunds on the same ticket' system, it would seem to make sense in some cases to just delay reporting the second loss for a few months, unless you are required to report immediately under the conditions?

I.e. lose February, renew September, lose December. Wouldn't people just stay quiet until February?

 

[Oswyntail]

Here we go again! The OP was not asking for a general discussion on the fairness of the rules, they were asking for some specific advice. If you really wish to start a (IMO pointless) debate of that nature, feel free to do so in another thread!

Yes, I appreciate that - I thought sensible advice had been given.

 

[snail]

lose February, renew September, lose December. Wouldn't people just stay quiet until February?

Yes, if they knew how the system worked. Someone in that position is also likely to report the loss to the Police to support their assertion that the ticket has been lost or stolen.