Great Northern Class 700 diagrams?

[Hadders]

I was on a crush loaded MKIV not helped by a guard insisting that passengers moved out of the 1st Class vestibules. The train was so wedged passengers ended up standing in the 1st class carriages as well as the vestibules until the train left Stevenage.

 

[jon0844]

Agree the 387s are useless with anything above minimal standing loads. I think we probably both agree that the 365 provides an ideal compromise - they cope pretty well with crush loads when it happens (the 0756 Cambridge to KX is a good example) but equally this isn’t at the expense of comfort most of the time.

I think the only issue with the 365s is the lack of decent ventilation (and even if the windows are open, it can get uncomfortably hot in the vestibules) and there's obviously space lost at the carriage ends with the luggage racks and a narrow set of doors that quite often don't work (so unless people force them open, they can't move through). 700s have a clear edge here, as well as air conditioning to hopefully make cramped trains a little more livable (even if they won't work miracles).

365s ordinarily are fine and have stood the test of time well. I do wish that someone would decide to keep all of them and find a way to strengthen more services. Ramp up weekend services and then finding a seat will be no problem*.

* Until improved services make people come back to the railway that currently avoid Sunday's in particular like the plague. If you build it they will come...

 

[Hadders]

My suspicion is that they'll end up having to keep all the 365s as 'Operation Snowflake' will probably fall over.

 

[bramling]

My suspicion is that they'll end up having to keep all the 365s as 'Operation Snowflake' will probably fall over.

That’s probably why they’re being stored at Ely. Just a quick tow back to Hornsey. DFT forward thinking for once!

 

[jon0844]

That’s probably why they’re being stored at Ely. Just a quick tow back to Hornsey. DFT forward thinking for once!

Considering there are so many spare EMUs of late, does anyone know if there's any actual serious consideration about keeping some more 365s after all? Or is it just wishful thinking?

 

[westcoaster]

I would have expected it to be part of the code they enter for a service, so done automatically. It was mentioned they need to manually enter a code to show the text, but I can't believe drivers are doing this on every TL service.

It would seem more likely to be an error, where the codes created for these new services have inadvertently left the 'flag' for declassification on - or something like that. In which case you'd expect the message to be shown on all four services today, and on an ongoing basis.

I am merely guessing, but GN drivers have little to no reason to set it when no request has been made.

What happens is, on every drivers diagram it says in the notices, if driving a 700 add a 1 to the end of the pis code.
I.e if the pis code for a 377/87 is 1234, on a 700 we input 12341
From what I know there is 3 different options. 0= no first class, 1 = no 1st at the rear, 2 = no 1st time he front. Hope tha helps

 

[sefton]

Considering there are so many spare EMUs of late, does anyone know if there's any actual serious consideration about keeping some more 365s after all? Or is it just wishful thinking?

One can hope.

 

[whoosh]

What happens is, on every drivers diagram it says in the notices, if driving a 700 add a 1 to the end of the pis code.
I.e if the pis code for a 377/87 is 1234, on a 700 we input 12341
From what I know there is 3 different options. 0= no first class, 1 = no 1st at the rear, 2 = no 1st time he front. Hope tha helps

On the GN we are told to add '1' to the end, but (within the last couple of days) perform a rather convoluted way of disabling the rear first class declassification which is automatically applied.

 

[bramling]

Considering there are so many spare EMUs of late, does anyone know if there's any actual serious consideration about keeping some more 365s after all? Or is it just wishful thinking?

If there is, I imagine it would be kept well under wraps.

At present the 365s are the only modern EMUs about to be spare. We can discount the 319s for the time being as there is the possibility of at least some diesel conversions. The glut of EMUs doean’t come for another year or two, and starts with the likes of 317s and 321s, together with others which are more likely to find employment, which is the 379s, 350/2s, 360s and, perhaps, the 323s. On paper the prospects for the 365s finding short-term work is quite good, although nothing seems imminent.

When Operation Snowflake becomes politically untenable is the point when the 365s may have a part to play. Alternatively people have suggested it would be neat to send many of the 387s to LTS to be back filled with 365s. It works on paper, but would it be politically tenable? Perhaps if the Fen Line User group keeps its 387s (ie everything beyond Ely) then it could be acceptable!

 

[class387]

A very fair point. It’s the city version which is not good, at least not when it’s applied to a longer distance railway.

The Desiro City is basically worse in pretty much every way compared to the original - seat comfort, ride quality, reliability etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Desiro City is basically worse in pretty much every way compared to the original - seat comfort, ride quality, reliability etc.

Yes, the Desiro UK appears to be an all round excellent product. How can it then go so wrong?

 

[samuelmorris]

The Desiro City is basically worse in pretty much every way compared to the original - seat comfort, ride quality, reliability etc.

Noisier too (A/C excluding), it just feels like a cut price version of the original, whereas Aventra Vs Electrostar is the opposite.

As for the 387/1s coming over to c2c I doubt it, I'm pretty sure the franchise commitment mandates more (unnecessary) new trains. Also, the lack of capacity 387s provide has been just as controversial there. The only way I can see the 365s coming back is as you say, a government abandonment of the Thameslink programme concept. If they're an immovable object on Southern DOO, then I expect them to be even less movable on Thameslink, given the infrastructure investment that it's required. I imagine 700s on the GN route are here to stay.

 

[Hadders]

I was on the 0736 from Stevenage this morning. Had to stand again. 1st class in force at both ends today.

I heard a significant number of conversations about how poor the new trains are compared to the old ones, from a passenger point of view. Interestingly a number suggested that the reason standard class is so bad must be to encourage passengers to buy 1st class tickets!!!

 

[387star]

They are growing on me... I tend to sit on the seats facing one another more leg room I dont find the seats as uncomfortable as 377 centre coaches

 

[bramling]

I was on the 0736 from Stevenage this morning. Had to stand again. 1st class in force at both ends today.

I heard a significant number of conversations about how poor the new trains are compared to the old ones, from a passenger point of view. Interestingly a number suggested that the reason standard class is so bad must be to encourage passengers to buy 1st class tickets!!!

Must have been your imagination, the new trains are wonderful in every respect.

In the real world, a reliable source tells me there have already been complaints.

 

[westcoaster]

On the GN we are told to add '1' to the end, but (within the last couple of days) perform a rather convoluted way of disabling the rear first class declassification which is automatically applied.

Simple way just do not add the 1 to the pis code

 

[Hadders]

Must have been your imagination, the new trains are wonderful in every respect.

In the real world, a reliable source tells me there have already been complaints.

I just missed tonight’s 1742 so have the pleasure of the 1753 non-stop to Stevenage operated by a pair of 365s

I won’t be on the 0736 until Friday - when this was 365 operated you’d definitely get a seat on a Friday in the rear carriage. I will report back...

 

[sd0733]

Currently on 700128 on the 18:12 kings cross to Peterborough. It's got quite a few standing but not too bad. Working wifi on this one too which I'm connected too and seems pretty quick. Also seat back tables throughout first.

 

[jon0844]

Currently on 700128 on the 18:12 kings cross to Peterborough. It's got quite a few standing but not too bad. Working wifi on this one too which I'm connected too and seems pretty quick. Also seat back tables throughout first.

Does it have seat back tables? Not seen one with either tables or Wi-Fi yet.

 

[Bungle965]

Does it have tables? Not seen one with either tables or Wi-Fi yet.

Fitment of tables have started as was discussed in this thread a few pages back.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thameslink-class-700-progress.92632/page-296#post-3189407
Sam

 

[jon0844]

Fitment of tables have started as was discussed in this thread a few pages back.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/thameslink-class-700-progress.92632/page-296#post-3189407
Sam

I know they're being fitted and I've seen photos, but are the ones GN are using fitted with them? Wi-Fi is certainly good, as I wasn't aware any 700s had this live yet.

Wi-Fi on the 387s is pretty bloody good, so I hope it's the exact same Icomera system.

 

[JonathanH]

700125 and 700128 both have seat back tables (as do 700139 and 700140 which are also on the GN).

 

[crazystripe]

Currently on 700128 on the 18:12 kings cross to Peterborough. It's got quite a few standing but not too bad. Working wifi on this one too which I'm connected too and seems pretty quick. Also seat back tables throughout first.

Also took this service. The lower number of seats was noticeable but the provision for standing room will definitely be helpful. The units certainly shift on AC power and seem to handle wheel slippage very well indeed. The additional power versus 365s will help recover small delays. The WiFi was great, the seat back tables a nice addition and legroom in the priority seats acceptable. Standard seats, less so, and the window side cabling boxes definitely intrude.

 

[westcoaster]

Also took this service. The lower number of seats was noticeable but the provision for standing room will definitely be helpful. The units certainly shift on AC power and seem to handle wheel slippage very well indeed. The additional power versus 365s will help recover small delays. The WiFi was great, the seat back tables a nice addition and legroom in the priority seats acceptable. Standard seats, less so, and the window side cabling boxes definitely intrude.

Not cabling boxes but part of the fire/ air con system

 

[APUK002]

Oh, that’s odd(but good from passengers view)

Im corrected,another post in 700 thread has advised 700’s both 1st class coaches are in operation unless staff or cis say otherwise,despite onboard screens.

 

[APUK002]

I am not surprised the rear carriage was packed. Going by Twitter conversations, a lot of people were saying first class was declassified at the back in advance (and GN saying no) so I expect a lot of commuters who are quite clued up, decided to make for first class.

The same happens on TL to a degree. Nicer seats, power and a table - meaning it's likely the first to fill up.

GTR needs to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet with regards to first class. Officially it IS in operation at the back, but if drivers are allowing trains to show the declassified screen then they aren't going to be able to enforce it.

Quite so!

 

[bramling]

Not cabling boxes but part of the fire/ air con system

Whatever they are they are a major factor in the trains being uncomfortable to use. Shifting the seats outwards just a couple of inches would go a long way to easing this. As things are all that happens is people in the window seats encroach into the aisle seats, which in turn causes legs and knees as well as belongings to encroach into the aisle itself - which is rather self-defeating.

 

[APUK002]

What happens is, on every drivers diagram it says in the notices, if driving a 700 add a 1 to the end of the pis code.
I.e if the pis code for a 377/87 is 1234, on a 700 we input 12341
From what I know there is 3 different options. 0= no first class, 1 = no 1st at the rear, 2 = no 1st time he front. Hope tha helps

Ok,thanks for info

 

[APUK002]

Did they not run yesterday,what about today?

 

[whoosh]

Simple way just do not add the 1 to the pis code

Oh! I'l try that then. Not sure why we're being told to add the '1' if it's only function is to declassify the rear first class, only to then go through a rigmorale of cancelling it out!

Typical railway!!