Overground/Crossrail takeover of Greater Anglia inners

[swt_passenger]

Ahhh yes! I quick search comes up with London Eastern Railway ltd being registered by National Express. Like GR, why hasn't that changed?

It isn't consistent as far as I can see, some of them have changed immediately at franchise change and some haven't.

e.g. FCC appeared in the NRTT as FC, but now we have separate GN and TL again, so presumably some incoming TOCs sort it out pretty quickly and some don't bother at all...

 

[Be3G]

I've yet to spot any train running via Seven Sisters and South Tottenham - Any offers?

The situation regarding this service doesn't change: it's still the first northbound service on a Saturday. The London Overground timetable shows it doesn't stop at the intermediate stations between Hackney and Seven Sisters. It used to be the case that this service ran via Stratford instead of Hackney, though that hasn't been the case for something like a year or two I think?

(I kind of wish there were more services between Seven Sisters and Stratford – years ago when there was a once-per-day parliamentary to Stratford via the Southbury loop I actually made a genuine use of the service.)

 

[ScotGG]

Ultimately here's what will happen - LO will see huge passenger increases (or at least people buying tickets) on the routes taken over due to the various factors mentioned - extra staff, barriers, advertising etc, as well as long term strategic operation and planning that comes from TfL control.

The longer distance Greater Anglia routes will see smaller increases, as the DfT are in charge and there will be a lack of long term planning - Greater Anglia will do the minimum but no more until the renewal come up (and they can't be blamed for that), and after that not a great deal will improve given the past two decades experience of franchised operations under the control of the DfT.

 

[LeeLivery]

Ultimately here's what will happen - LO will see huge passenger increases (or at least people buying tickets) on the routes taken over due to the various factors mentioned - extra staff, barriers, advertising etc, as well as long term strategic operation and planning that comes from TfL control.

The longer distance Greater Anglia routes will see smaller increases, as the DfT are in charge and there will be a lack of long term planning - Greater Anglia will do the minimum but no more until the renewal come up (and they can't be blamed for that), and after that not a great deal will improve given the past two decades experience of franchised operations under the control of the DfT.

Passenger usage is pretty high already. Southbound 4 car trains from Enfield/Cheshunt are packed by the time it reaches Cambridge Heath, so I don't expect a huge increase - the people who need it, knows the lines are already there. I don't however, understand why they aren't tendering for 8 car sets instead of 4. They probably will end up being fixed in 8 car formation like the Shenfield Metro and SWT routes in a couple years anyway.
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It isn't consistent as far as I can see, some of them have changed immediately at franchise change and some haven't.

e.g. FCC appeared in the NRTT as FC, but now we have separate GN and TL again, so presumably some incoming TOCs sort it out pretty quickly and some don't bother at all...

Odd that

 

[jopsuk]

four car units allows them to have a common fleet with GOBLIN and Romford-Upminster.

 

[glbotu]

It isn't consistent as far as I can see, some of them have changed immediately at franchise change and some haven't.

e.g. FCC appeared in the NRTT as FC, but now we have separate GN and TL again, so presumably some incoming TOCs sort it out pretty quickly and some don't bother at all...

I think it was because of the Franchise Re-Mapping. With FCC being TL + GN (having moved from WAGN).

Once it got re-done, it's now back to TL + GN, because it is now being run by different operators, but part of the same company. It'll be additionally useful later when TL and GN will be going to notably different places.

While Greater Anglia is a different company, it's franchise is pretty much the same as the ONE Railway franchise, after the original franchise re-mapping.

 

[berneyarms]

The situation regarding this service doesn't change: it's still the first northbound service on a Saturday. The London Overground timetable shows it doesn't stop at the intermediate stations between Hackney and Seven Sisters. It used to be the case that this service ran via Stratford instead of Hackney, though that hasn't been the case for something like a year or two I think?

(I kind of wish there weren't more services between Seven Sisters and Stratford – years ago when there was a once-per-day parliamentary to Stratford via the Southbury loop I actually made a genuine use of the service.)

Correct - the 05:31 London Liverpool Street-Enfield Town will continue to operate via South Tottenham after the switch to London Overground.

 

[Class377/5]

It isn't consistent as far as I can see, some of them have changed immediately at franchise change and some haven't.

e.g. FCC appeared in the NRTT as FC, but now we have separate GN and TL again, so presumably some incoming TOCs sort it out pretty quickly and some don't bother at all...

The reason why it changed from FCC to TL/GN is as simple add that what the service was branded as.

 

[swt_passenger]

The reason why it changed from FCC to TL/GN is as simple add that what the service was branded as.

But that doesn't explain why LE and GR are still used some years after those TOCs ceased. The point is that the two letter codes are not consistently changed when necessary.

FCc's short code of FC changing to GN and TL was only mentioned as an example of what really ought to happen every time...

 

[Class377/5]

But that doesn't explain why LE and GR are still used some years after those TOCs ceased. The point is that the two letter codes are not consistently changed when necessary.

FCc's short code of FC changing to GN and TL was only mentioned as an example of what really ought to happen every time...

Ah get you know. Yes should be that way.

 

[LeeLivery]

I don't if its been mentioned already elsewhere but the TfL Rail part of the TfL website is up and running. The normal print timetable is available and it does include AGA services.

 

[JaJaWa]

I don't if its been mentioned already elsewhere but the TfL Rail part of the TfL website is up and running. The normal print timetable is available and it does include AGA services.

They seem to be having some issues with spelling the name of one of their stations

 

[LeeLivery]

They seem to be having some issues with spelling the name of one of their stations

Oh dear... On the website, it claims that only Shenfield is in Essex, ignoring Brentwood and that TfL Rail is taking over West Anglia services

I've also seen the new London Rail map which shows Brentwood will be in zone 9 - yes NINE!

 

[swt_passenger]

Going back to earlier discussion about the 'TOC codes' in the NRTT commercial section; TfL Rail appears as a TOC with the code XR, and has been positioned in the list immediately after XC, i.e. fairly near the front. Presumably because Crossrail sorts behind Crosscountry...

 

[Class377/5]

Oh dear... On the website, it claims that only Shenfield is in Essex, ignoring Brentwood and that TfL Rail is taking over West Anglia services

I've also seen the new London Rail map which shows Brentwood will be in zone 9 - yes NINE!

TfL Rail is taking over some West Anglia services. Is will be operated by/branded Overground however. Same is true of every Overground line and I believe the DLR comes under TfL Rail too.

 

[LeeLivery]

TfL Rail is taking over some West Anglia services. Is will be operated by/branded Overground however. Same is true of every Overground line and I believe the DLR comes under TfL Rail too.

Yes I know that. But it was information about the LST-Shenfield service not LO or the DLR services.

From 31 May 2015, we will take over the running of West Anglia Rail services between Liverpool Street and Shenfield. Re-named TfL Rail, these services will form part of Crossrail which opens fully in December 2019.

 

[berneyarms]

I don't if its been mentioned already elsewhere but the TfL Rail part of the TfL website is up and running. The normal print timetable is available and it does include AGA services.

It would be helpful if you could post a link to the section when posting this!

The section is here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/tfl-rail/

Thanks for the heads up regardless!

 

[transmanche]

I've also seen the new London Rail map which shows Brentwood will be in zone 9 - yes NINE!

And?

It will mean that Oyster PAYG through fares to Z1 will decrease from £9.70 peak/£7.60 off-peak to £7.10 peak/£4.20 off-peak.
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TfL Rail is taking over some West Anglia services. Is will be operated by/branded Overground however. Same is true of every Overground line and I believe the DLR comes under TfL Rail too.

I think you're confusing TfL's London Rail directorate and TfL Rail (the brand).

The London Rail and London Underground directorates have now merged to form one Rail and Underground Unit anyway.

 

[LeeLivery]

And?

It will mean that Oyster PAYG through fares to Z1 will decrease from £9.70 peak/£7.60 off-peak to £7.10 peak/£4.20 off-peak.
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I think you're confusing TfL's London Rail directorate and TfL Rail (the brand).

The London Rail and London Underground directorates have now merged to form one Rail and Underground Unit anyway.

A welcome fare decrease, but why 9 and not 7? Carpenders Park, Croxley, Chorleywood and Moor Park all 7. It seems odd to skip two zones.

 

[Class377/5]

I think you're confusing TfL's London Rail directorate and TfL Rail (the brand).

The London Rail and London Underground directorates have now merged to form one Rail and Underground Unit anyway.

It was known as TfL Rail with its own roundel. The term directorate never came into it. TfL Rail chief Ian Brown name badge always showed TfL Rail for example.

However the TfL Rail section still over sees the entire LO, TfL Rail and future Crossrail services anyway.

 

[transmanche]

A welcome fare decrease, but why 9 and not 7? Carpenders Park, Croxley, Chorleywood and Moor Park all 7. It seems odd to skip two zones.

Why not Z9? Why is Epping in Z6? Why is there no Z9 on the Watford Line?

I guess it's because Brentwood and Shenfield only came into the Oyster PAYG scheme in 2013 and the Z9 fares are the closest zonal fares that TfL want to charge.

 

[JaJaWa]

It was known as TfL Rail with its own roundel. The term directorate never came into it. TfL Rail chief Ian Brown name badge always showed TfL Rail for example.



However the TfL Rail section still over sees the entire LO, TfL Rail and future Crossrail services anyway.

It was known as London Rail (like London Underground) and had a brown roundel! Slightly off-topic though.

 

[transmanche]

It was known as TfL Rail with its own roundel. The term directorate never came into it. TfL Rail chief Ian Brown name badge always showed TfL Rail for example.

Again, branding can be 'confusing'...

 

[JaJaWa]

Why not Z9? Why is Epping in Z6? Why is there no Z9 on the Watford Line?



I guess it's because Brentwood and Shenfield only came into the Oyster PAYG scheme in 2013 and the Z9 fares are the closest zonal fares that TfL want to charge.

I wonder when the current 'outside zones' zone will become Zone 10...

Seems we don't have much hope for the Thameslink stations being put in reasonable zones.

 

[Class377/5]

Again, branding can be 'confusing'...

Completely agree with you.

 

[mattdickinson]

I wonder when the current 'outside zones' zone will become Zone 10...

Seems we don't have much hope for the Thameslink stations being put in reasonable zones.

Potters Bar was to have been Zone 9 under the vetoed FCC scheme.

 

[swt_passenger]

I've also seen the new London Rail map which shows Brentwood will be in zone 9 - yes NINE!

Why shouldn't it be in zone 9 if that gives the required fare?
Is there a rule that requires zones 7 and 8 to be used first? I don't think so.

 

[AM9]

Oh dear... On the website, it claims that only Shenfield is in Essex....

But Brentwood is one of the hubs in TOWIE!
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Why not Z9? Why is Epping in Z6? Why is there no Z9 on the Watford Line?

I guess it's because Brentwood and Shenfield only came into the Oyster PAYG scheme in 2013 and the Z9 fares are the closest zonal fares that TfL want to charge.

Does that mean that a journey from Amersham (zone 9) to Shenfield (to be zone 9) avoing zone 1 using LO from West Hampstead to Stratford Regional, would be cheaper than an all-zones journey?

 

[bb21]

Does that mean that a journey from Amersham (zone 9) to Shenfield (to be zone 9) avoing zone 1 using LO from West Hampstead to Stratford Regional, would be cheaper than an all-zones journey?

If such a fare is defined, yes.

Zones 2-9 fare rather than a 1-9 fare.

 

[jon0844]

Potters Bar was to have been Zone 9 under the vetoed FCC scheme.

Wow. That's quite some jump from Hadley Wood. Even Cheshunt is only zone 8.

Anyway, it seems Oyster won't be extending this year and we'll just get The Key. I assume I can't use the Key at all places where you can use Oyster, so if I get the prepaid Keygo card (assuming we get that), then I'll still need to switch between the Key and Oyster on my travels from Hatfield to Cheshunt, which is going to be a PITA but slightly less so than paper/Oyster, on account of not having to buy a ticket before travel.