priv discount to be allowed on off peak tickets

[Moonshot]

Dude. Airlines aren't railways. It's not the same thing so don't even try to compare it. Fact is, you can just jump on a train most of the time without having to make any advance bookings.

Rail staff are there to help out in the same way that police who get free travel are there to help out in the event of an incident.

I've been travelling PRIV on Chiltern before when an incident arose - it saw me spending my entire journey from Brum to London with a torch pointed down the gangway of one coach - the lights weren't working and the train was rammed.

There's absolutely no harm in allowing other staff to travel for free - it used to be commonplace and legit and still should be.
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Precisely. You're not adding to the operating costs by being on the train.

The value of trained members of staff being on board in case of emergency far outweighs the 'cost' of them travelling for free.

Absolutely 100% correct - and its the way I look at this when I let TPE or ATW staff on board. I myself will always ask the relevant conductor if I m travelling with another TOC ( mainly TPE ) as it is courtesy etc.....
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As far as the PRIV card goes....I have yet to use mine. But thats more because when I ve spent all week working a train, I really dont want to be travelling on one in my spare time as I have had enough if I m honest.

 

[PermitToTravel]

It's not comparable to a supermarket or an airport as there is no cost involved to anyone. If a sainsburys employee bought some milk in tesco then a tesco staff member wouldn't let then off without paying as it will cost their employer for the cost if the milk. If I travel free on a train I'm not adding to the TOCs cost.

This is a perfectly valid argument.

My local line is DOO, and no stations are gated. I would not be adding to the TOC's cost at all by helping myself to a ride every day.

I've been travelling PRIV on Chiltern before when an incident arose - it saw me spending my entire journey from Brum to London with a torch pointed down the gangway of one coach - the lights weren't working and the train was rammed.

Passengers can illuminate coaches of a dark train with a torch - I've done it before.

The value of trained members of staff being on board in case of emergency far outweighs the 'cost' of them travelling for free.

To the conductor/driver who would be receiving their help, or possibly the passengers - perhaps. But if the TOC thought that this assistance, from their point of view, would be worth the fare, then surely they would offer the journey to them free of charge, as I believe some TOCs (as well as all TfL modes of transport) do with police officers?

There's absolutely no harm in allowing other staff to travel for free - it used to be commonplace and legit and still should be.

Believe it or not I don't disagree with you - I do think all railstaff ought to get free travel. I am thoroughly amused, however, by how many railstaff justify helping themselves to this perk in the same way that many criminals justify illegal fare evasion (especially when many of the staff concerned are the most indignant about such crimes when committed by other people)

 

[455driver]

I was wondering when we were going to do this again, it has been a few months since the last time! :roll:

Basically the railway family look after their own, this makes people who are not in the family jealous so they moan about it!

Personally I never ask for a free ride but I do accept them when offered (which is quite often thank you), occasionally when on that free ride I will assist the guard in removing a person from the train when they dont want to leave, this makes me and the guard very happy but does tend to upset the person who has been removed, the abuse we receive as the train leaves that person behind makes us laugh a lot but as we are polite we do wave to them!

 

[LowLevel]

This is a perfectly valid argument.

My local line is DOO, and no stations are gated. I would not be adding to the TOC's cost at all by helping myself to a ride every day.

Passengers can illuminate coaches of a dark train with a torch - I've done it before.


To the conductor/driver who would be receiving their help, or possibly the passengers - perhaps. But if the TOC thought that this assistance, from their point of view, would be worth the fare, then surely they would offer the journey to them free of charge, as I believe some TOCs (as well as all TfL modes of transport) do with police officers?


Believe it or not I don't disagree with you - I do think all railstaff ought to get free travel. I am thoroughly amused, however, by how many railstaff justify helping themselves to this perk in the same way that many criminals justify illegal fare evasion (especially when many of the staff concerned are the most indignant about such crimes when committed by other people)

With regards to TOCs valuing the help - I'd say they certainly do - it is another part of the safety case for DOO trains you mention. As a safety critical railwayman I'm trained to respond to the coded message the signaller plays over the PA that basically means 'oh ****, I can't get hold of the driver and I think something is wrong with them - go and investigate please' - this despite it not being used on my company's trains - railway staff are often quite useful in situations you wouldn't expect or realise but that the train operators are fully aware of.

If they really wanted to stop staff travelling free they'd have taken a far harder line.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I was wondering when we were going to do this again, it has been a few months since the last time! :roll:

Basically the railway family look after their own, this makes people who are not in the family jealous so they moan about it!

Personally I never ask for a free ride but I do accept them when offered (which is quite often thank you), occasionally when on that free ride I will assist the guard in removing a person from the train when they dont want to leave, this makes me and the guard very happy but does tend to upset the person who has been removed, the abuse we receive as the train leaves that person behind makes us laugh a lot but as we are polite we do wave to them!

I think I said the same in the last debate. I find it quite funny how the same ridiculous comments are said by the same people. What's the betting that quite a few who do not feel it is right us lowly traincrew getting perks would say the same if they got on the railway.

 

[bnm]

I'm not adding to the operating cost of the railway either. The train runs whether I board or not. I have first aid training and can do the 'big man' thing if required.

Can I have a free ride please?

 

[A-driver]

I was wondering when we were going to do this again, it has been a few months since the last time! :roll:



Basically the railway family look after their own, this makes people who are not in the family jealous so they moan about it!



Personally I never ask for a free ride but I do accept them when offered (which is quite often thank you), occasionally when on that free ride I will assist the guard in removing a person from the train when they dont want to leave, this makes me and the guard very happy but does tend to upset the person who has been removed, the abuse we receive as the train leaves that person behind makes us laugh a lot but as we are polite we do wave to them!

Absolutely. Sadly his forum is full of jealousy and bitterness because rail staff look out for each other and help each other out with official and unofficial perks. Management know that this kind of thing goes on and don't have an issue with it. If they did they would put a stop to it, quite easily.

 

[455driver]

To show how concerned Management are about this, I once sat in 1st class on a 166 between Reading and Guildford having a nice chat with Mark Hopwood (FGW Managing Director), and there was me in my SWT drivers uniform, did he complain to the guard or say anything afterwards? Nope not a word because he doesn't care about other TOC staff getting a free ride.

If the MD doesn't care why would anyone else in a position of power!

 

[thedbdiboy]

It will be announced formally once the necessary fare setting processes have been completed (and in good time for the September implementation). However, as the processes involve communicating with all TOC pricing people we all in reality knew that the news would leak well in advance. Still, for once we are talking about a good news (and long overdue) change!

 

[DarloRich]

I won’t ever ask for a free journey. I have been offered several and more than several upgrades but have only taken on:

When I was mugged in London and my wallet and phone stolen. All I was left with was my work ID. BTP were very helpful as was the KX station manger and EC guard who put me in first class to York. They gave me the free food and several of them offered to lend me money if I couldn’t get any. The guard offered to put me up if there were problems with the hotel!

Oh and I knew I wouldn’t get any travel perks when I took my job. It doesn’t make it right though

We still have a “family” feel on the railway despite all of the fragmentation. I have noticed that most of us try to look out for each other and no matter how much we complain about each other ( and we all do ) we still know that we rely on each other to keep things running and safe.

 

[Bellbell]

I'm a newbie and never charge staff. Despite being a newbie I've already had reason to ask for assistance from railway staff travelling on my train and that's worth far more than giving out free travel. I don't charge police either.

I always ask before getting on if hoping for a short hop free ride and buy tickets for long journeys although I will often ask if I can buy on board. I once horrified a virgin TM by showing him my already bought priv ticket. He sent me straight to first class and told me off for buying one in the first place . I never presume though and am fine with buying a priv ticket.

 

[WelshBluebird]

As someone who isn't staff and has no links to the railways apart from travelling on them, I personally think it is great that some sort of comradery still exists in our ridiculously fragmented railway set up. It is actually nice to see and is such a contrast to the way the rest of society seems to be going in.

 

[03_179]

Sadly the "look after your own" attitude is beginning to wain.

I know for a fact a couple of staff members penalty fared/reported by RPIs on their OWN TOC.

There is still some of the old railway feel as I know many gateline staff and they rarely ask for passes to known staff members, I do find it funny when a newbie ask for a pass and one of hte regular staff members kindly informs the newbie, "we don't ask staff for it" or "He's one of ours".

The only newbie that kept on insisting did get a lot of staff members backs up and isn't on that gateline anymore.

Earlier this year the was trouble oin EMT so my lad and I went up via Donny to SHF. The nice guard said "Go in there", pointing to 1st. I asked if she was really sure and she said yes. So we did. I did make a point of saying thank you again when I got to SHF.

I've done almost 30 years on the job now and I have safeguarded, but the newer members of staff that don't do seem to look at you funnily or jealously when you show your boxes but never had a member of staff be stroppy.

 

[bengley]

Passengers can illuminate coaches of a dark train with a torch - I've done it before.

In this case the options presented by the driver were:

a) everyone (mostly drunk passengers) in the coach move to other (already full and standing) coaches
or
b) staff (me) assist with helping passengers see the aisle and giving the driver the tip at stations when people had safely alighted.

The passengers were drunk and given the situation I think the driver chose the best option. Without my being there, the coach would have been locked out.

 

[Mattmatt]

I'll start on the original topic; PRV's becoming more accessible & to be used on more tickets. This is a huge relief as it will mean that the hard working staff of the railway will be able to use them on long distance journeys again & making use of the privilege (thus still bringing in revenue to the TOC) even though that revenue will be nigh on minuscule if someone insists on purchasing a PRV on short commuter routes. In Manchester, we have evening returns (50% off the normal CDR from 1830 - 2100) which seem almost pointless at times too; can you imagine charging a PRV that would could amount to just pence for a ticket.

With regard to charging rail staff for PRV rate on my trains; not a chance in hell, I won't even make a traveller with 'Boxes' fill in the dates. It was remarked on before; we are one big railway family and we should stick together. Prime example; I worked a train to SHF the other day, some East Coast colleagues came along and asked me if they could travel to a certain st, yes, no problem. As for myself I will always ask the guard of another TOC's train to see i can travel for free, that's just out of respect; the last thing a guard wants is to start checking tickets & then find someone from another TOC blagging their way for a free journey (esp on long trips) Its not cheeky to ask; i think you'd be surprised how many managers will use their cards on other trains. When going 'pass' to another station & that train has a 1st class; staff are 99% of the time directed to take a seat in 1st.

Another example is when I was travelling from MAN to BHM via X Country I found the guard to see if i was ok to travel & he said no & that a policy had just come out that said no TOC should be allowing free travel etc; so I said can you sell me a PRV & said no he wasn't allowed to!- This i knew to be a complete load of BS, so went to the ticket office & purchased a PRV & sat on his train! To see his face when he came through was a picture. The return journey a couple of hours later; i did the same (spoke to guard) & was allowed into 1st class! (Note I didn't request 1st class - I was directed to take seat in 1st) There will always be a few guards who won't let staff on the train for free in any TOC.

So for me, if i see a PRV card it = free travel...

I will also let Police staff (with valid Warrant card) on my trains for free too; that's come in handy on number of occasions where the assistance of a police officer has helped considerably removing of an issue.

So I'm looking forward to September (if it happens) but will still continue to ask the guard.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I don't work for the railway (at least not yet, 30 years of submitting applications to go before I cross the threshold. ) but it is absolutely lovely to see comradeship still going.

I was talking to a driver the other day about priv, in relation to what we conversed about, has anyone here had issues with LO staff and priv?

 

[Urban Gateline]

I don't work for the railway (at least not yet, 30 years of submitting applications to go before I cross the threshold. ) but it is absolutely lovely to see comradeship still going.

I was talking to a driver the other day about priv, in relation to what we conversed about, has anyone here had issues with LO staff and priv?

What kind of "issues"? A member of Southern staff I know once got a Penalty Fare for travelling from Clapham Junction to Clapham High street without a ticket!

I think LOROL and FCC are probably the most hard-line when it comes to enforcement, especially the former which shares many stations with LUL!

I had an issue with a LOROL ticket office refusing to sell a PRIV discounted ALR but that's another story!

 

[spacehopper]

If you want free travel on the railway- don't get a job on the railway get one with a police force! There are many many more coppers who get a "free" ride than rail staff. Must save quite a bit rather than buying a season ticket for daily commute and getting night out on lash thrown in as well.

 

[GatwickDepress]

What kind of "issues"? A member of Southern staff I know once got a Penalty Fare for travelling from Clapham Junction to Clapham High street without a ticket!

I think LOROL and FCC are probably the most hard-line when it comes to enforcement, especially the former which shares many stations with LUL!

I had an issue with a LOROL ticket office refusing to sell a PRIV discounted ALR but that's another story!

The LOROL member of staff were unsure whether NR priv was allowed, since there was a bit of ambiguity at the booking office as to where LOROL stood in the matter. i.e were they under TfL rules or NR, or any combination therein!

 

[NLC1072]

Perhaps some members could highlight some of the new bargain fares to be had ?

 

[Urban Gateline]

Perhaps some members could highlight some of the new bargain fares to be had ?

One thing that isn't clear is if it is only Off-Peak tickets or also Super Off-Peak tickets that will attract PRIV discount from September? Even if only the former, it's still a good benefit/better than before!

 

[bb21]

It would make very little sense for Super Off-Peak fares to be excluded, should Off-Peak fares be available on PRIV.

They could just solve any misunderstanding by saying that all walk-on single/return fare can be sold with PRIV discount in the appropriate class.

 

[Urban Gateline]

It would make very little sense for Super Off-Peak fares to be excluded, should Off-Peak fares be available on PRIV.

They could just solve any misunderstanding by saying that all walk-on single/return fare can be sold with PRIV discount in the appropriate class.

I agree! It will be awesome when it happens, especially useful for short notice Journeys!
However I think I'll still make use of Advances for long Journeys as I like to travel First Class, especially on VT and EC where Railcard discounted 1st Advances are very reasonably priced if bought when lowest tiers are available.

 

[RJ]

I tend not to ask for free travel unless I could legitimately get it, but it would take much longer to get anywhere, and, to be fair, in most cases staff are fine with it. The most problems I have are not with travelling free, but actually using Priv discounted tickets, though these problems do tend to occur when using a certain Intercity TOC.

Care to expand on that? From the general attitude I have seen from (a minority) of on-board staff I would not be surprised to see problems with travelling free but what possible issues could they have with valid Priv discounted tickets?

I have only ever gotten 2 types of response when using Priv in Britain, the guards who check them the same as any other ticket or those who see the Priv and immediately lose any interest in checking the ticket further.

I have had a ticket office clerk who was rather sceptical about my priv card and went to a colleague to check but that I am not surprised about as our cards are very amateurish looking and the wording on them is not very clear.

To be honest it does appear to be a worse sin to use valid creative ticketing with a Priv discount than it is to not bother buying a ticket. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been told I'll be disciplined, sacked or convicted for using Priv split tickets or some other ticket that isn't quite understood by the person checking it! Furthermore I'd say that 4 out of 5 times, the person checking the ticket tells me they have had 10+ years of experience in checking tickets, using it as a justification for being closed to learning anything new about the ticket(s) I'm using.

I'd like to see a bit less "them and us" when it comes to longevity of service, because there are bad apples in the ticket inspection grade, both with years under their belt and new entrants.

 

[yorkie]

Perhaps some members could highlight some of the new bargain fares to be had ?

We did have a thread recently about the cheapest fares per mile which I'm sure you could dig out, but for a combination of huge mileage and nice scenery how about SIE-WTB CDR?

From SHERBURN IN ELMT
To WHITBY.
Route NOT VIA DARLNGTNADULT
£13.70

So with PRIV that would be £3.40

A round trip is 196 miles!

 

[Marklund]

Allowing Priv for 1st class would be good

This. If you can pay the difference to first on FIP, it would be nice to pay the difference with Priv.

And thanks to the Guards out there who have been most understanding in my forgetfulness in bringing a pen when using my boxes.

Now, if they introduced at least a railcard for non-TOC staff who aren't safeguarded, then that would be fantastic too.

 

[theageofthetra]

Im not sure if this is unique to my TOC but we don't get Priv until after 6 months service. We get a pass for all our component TOC's from the beginning though. Now if I was to go to another London based TOC and show this pass to a guard or gateline staff and ask nicely am I likely to be told to sling yer hook? Great news about the changes for when I do get my Priv.

 

[Yew]

This. If you can pay the difference to first on FIP, it would be nice to pay the difference with Priv.

And thanks to the Guards out there who have been most understanding in my forgetfulness in bringing a pen when using my boxes.

Now, if they introduced at least a railcard for non-TOC staff who aren't safeguarded, then that would be fantastic too.

Indeed, I'm supriused something hasnt been introduced for Network rail and ancilliary industry staff, even if it is less generous in its percentage

 

[RJ]

Im not sure if this is unique to my TOC but we don't get Priv until after 6 months service. We get a pass for all our component TOC's from the beginning though. Now if I was to go to another London based TOC and show this pass to a guard or gateline staff and ask nicely am I likely to be told to sling yer hook? Great news about the changes for when I do get my Priv.

The only TOC I know of with this policy is Southeastern, there may be others I'm not aware of. As for the pass, it's at your own risk. I'm a believer in covering myself by going by the book. I personally wouldn't try getting through a gateline or boarding a driver only operated train without a valid ticket for the journey.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I personally wouldn't try getting through a gateline... without a valid ticket for the journey.

The barrier key must be useful for something? If I were you theageofthetra, I would wait the 6 months until you get your PRIV.