priv discount to be allowed on off peak tickets

[hairyhandedfool]

Perhaps some members could highlight some of the new bargain fares to be had ?

Depends on your definition of bargain of course, but.....

Current Manchester-London Priv Anytime Return (Any Permitted) £80.25
Current Manchester-London Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) £79.70
'New' Manchester-London Priv Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) £19.95

 

[theageofthetra]

Just to clarify I was not suggesting going through an open gate or boarding a doo train without asking or having a valid ticket. I was wondering if the pass we get would get the same reaction from staff as the priv pass if we asked a guard or gateline staff on say SWT on a short London journey? .

 

[RJ]

Just to clarify I was not suggesting going through an open gate or boarding a doo train without asking or having a valid ticket. I was wondering if the pass we get would get the same reaction from staff as the priv pass if we asked a guard or gateline staff on say SWT on a short London journey? .

I'm minded to say forget about it for short London journeys. I've never tried flashing a pass at a gateline and I wouldn't recommend it either! I've very averse to the unnecessary creation of potentially awkward situations.

Besides, it was hard enough getting through the barriers at Vauxhall when the ticket office was shut and I wanted a Priv ticket that was cheaper than the cheapest ticket available from the TVM!

 

[theageofthetra]

I agree it is probably not worth the aggro but am still unsure of the status to others in the industry of this TOC's card.

 

[NLC1072]

Depends on your definition of bargain of course, but.....

Current Manchester-London Priv Anytime Return (Any Permitted) £80.25
Current Manchester-London Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) £79.70
'New' Manchester-London Priv Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) £19.95

This is the sort of thing I was looking for! Cheers!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The barrier key must be useful for something? .....

It's not a question of what can be used, it's a question of who would be using it.

 

[Mattmatt]

Depending on who you work for, & if you're going to London & can get to Crewe, (I'd imagine most can) I've found a ticket that can be used at peak time but costs £14.90 (Single) £23.30 (return) with a PRV, Crewe to Clapham Jnc. It's an Anytime ticket & can be used into Euston. It's not an any permitted route, but the routing is LC (London & Cheshire which covers Clapham to Crewe, the Trent Valley) I checked this via the national routing guide. The Anytime, any permitted ticket is £32 & £64 respectively (with PRV)

 

[Haywain]

I think hairyhandedfool was just offering an example of the difference the Priv on Off Peak fares will make. There are some journeys where a choice of operators is not available and this change will make a big difference.

 

[RJ]

Depending on who you work for, & if you're going to London & can get to Crewe, (I'd imagine most can) I've found a ticket that can be used at peak time but costs £14.90 (Single) £23.30 (return) with a PRV, Crewe to Clapham Jnc. It's an Anytime ticket & can be used into Euston. It's not an any permitted route, but the routing is LC (London & Cheshire which covers Clapham to Crewe, the Trent Valley) I checked this via the national routing guide. The Anytime, any permitted ticket is £32 & £64 respectively (with PRV)

This a ticket routed +Southern and London Midland. It is technically routed Any Permitted, but only on services operated by those TOCs.

 

[Mattmatt]

This a ticket routed +Southern and London Midland. It is technically routed Any Permitted, but only on services operated by those TOCs.

I was just pointing out that, if you're creative, you don't have to pay the extortionate prices for a PRV (if traveling to London) at peak times. But on the whole I can't wait until the PRV changes.

Plus there are other tickets in the system that, if you look, will enable you to travel the length of the country for £10 (via one specific operator)

 

[Llanigraham]

I note that we still haven't seen any evidence from any source that this change in the current "rules" might be happening.
Until then I'm not going to get too excited

 

[Clip]

Depends on your definition of bargain of course, but.....

Current Manchester-London Priv Anytime Return (Any Permitted) £80.25
Current Manchester-London Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) £79.70
'New' Manchester-London Priv Off-Peak Return (Any Permitted) £19.95

That is an excellent example but for me the option of having the Anytime Priv helps me when I go up to football as I can get back to London on a monday morning should we have any Sunday games - dont have to take the day off then.

 

[Mechy]

And us signallers still get no concessions . I wish there would be a day when anyone on the railway receives priv. It is a bug bear when we are as heavily involved in running trains as the TOC, yet we have to pay full whack to use them! What's even more annoying, is that people who don't even work on the railway (spouses and dependants) and rail workers from Europe receive discount too. It seems so unfair.

 

[fireftrm]

But back to the original topic. Looking forward to this coming in. The anytime fare from London to Newcastle is just silly and a priv discount off silly is still not worth it, so just drive. A decent fare might even make it worth it to train it up there and then rent a car for visting everyone that I need to when I'm up there.

Anytime return £301, priv fare £75.25. That is an excellent price for a return fare for a journey of over 250 miles each way!
With the off peak at £199.50 the difference of £25 (on the priv rate) won't buy much, or if not be a reason to make me drive that far. £12.50 for the effort, not to mention fuel and wear and tear on your car, each way? Nice to get the additional saving, but certainly not a deal maker, or breaker?

 

[Marklund]

And us signallers still get no concessions . I wish there would be a day when anyone on the railway receives priv. It is a bug bear when we are as heavily involved in running trains as the TOC, yet we have to pay full whack to use them! What's even more annoying, is that people who don't even work on the railway (spouses and dependants) and rail workers from Europe receive discount too. It seems so unfair.

Let's not overlook everyone who is non-TOC that doesn't get Staff Travel, there's plenty of others, not just signalmen.

 

[Moonshot]

And us signallers still get no concessions . I wish there would be a day when anyone on the railway receives priv. It is a bug bear when we are as heavily involved in running trains as the TOC, yet we have to pay full whack to use them! What's even more annoying, is that people who don't even work on the railway (spouses and dependants) and rail workers from Europe receive discount too. It seems so unfair.

Which you were fully aware of when you became a signaller......of course signallers from the BR days are still entitled to use the boxes and other elements of safeguarded travel so its incorrect to state that signallers dont get concessions - some do provided they have enough history.

 

[Hadders]

I don't work on the railway but such a huge difference in benefits can't be good for engagement or morale.

It's all very well saying you knew what you signed up for. Very true, but you might not be aware when you signed up that some colleagues doing the same job as you get vastly superior benefits.

To say that some get full free travel while others get absolutely nothing is something the unions really ought to sort out.

 

[455driver]

Let's not overlook everyone who is non-TOC that doesn't get Staff Travel, there's plenty of others, not just signalmen.

Far too many of them/you don't get any entitlements which is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Llanigraham]

Which you were fully aware of when you became a signaller......of course signallers from the BR days are still entitled to use the boxes and other elements of safeguarded travel so its incorrect to state that signallers dont get concessions - some do provided they have enough history.

Thanks for all your support (NOT)!!

Yes I knew when I became a signalman that I wouldn't get Priv, but it appears from the talk here that there might be an extension to the current scheme, but we (NR staff) will not be included. So it appears to be another kick in the teeth for lots of us signallers who are at the moment facing redundancy.

Is it any wonder that morale withing the signalling grade is cr@p at the moment?

 

[NLC1072]

Thanks for all your support (NOT)!!

Yes I knew when I became a signalman that I wouldn't get Priv, but it appears from the talk here that there might be an extension to the current scheme, but we (NR staff) will not be included. So it appears to be another kick in the teeth for lots of us signallers who are at the moment facing redundancy.

Is it any wonder that morale withing the signalling grade is cr@p at the moment?

The travel was sold off for better pay was it not back in the day?

 

[RJ]

I don't work on the railway but such a huge difference in benefits can't be good for engagement or morale.

It's all very well saying you knew what you signed up for. Very true, but you might not be aware when you signed up that some colleagues doing the same job as you get vastly superior benefits.

To say that some get full free travel while others get absolutely nothing is something the unions really ought to sort out.

Personally I don't mind. I'm grateful for what I have - I don't begrudge what I don't have, or what others have.

I also work in the London bus industry where parity is a very distant concept. Almost every driver gets different rates and benefits. Again, I just go in and get on with the job - life is too short to worry about trivialities of this nature!

The travel was sold off for better pay was it not back in the day?

There is that element to it as well. I wonder how many people for example would sacrifice £3k of their annual salary for a Priv, or 16 boxes. The TOC I work for is very generous with its benefits, but then quite a few other TOCs pay more for the same roles.

 

[Marklund]

Far too many of them/you don't get any entitlements which is a sad state of affairs.

Them, not me. I've got enough years in to have mine.
However, I totally agree. It's a poor show that some do, and some don't.

There is that element to it as well. I wonder how many people for example would sacrifice £3k of their annual salary for a Priv, or 16 boxes. The TOC I work for is very generous with its benefits, but then quite a few other TOCs pay more for the same roles.

The 3k figure for NR staff is off. It's a taxable benefit in kind to the value of about £670 (at least that's what my latest P11D said). I don't get £670 pa less salary than non-safeguarded without travel staff.

 

[Mechy]

I know I didn't sign up for it when I joined NR, however I didn't realise how much of a two tier workforce it would be. It should be all or nothing. Even if we were entitled to let's say, a "rail staff railcard" with 1/3 off I would be happy.

 

[Haywain]

Them, not me. I've got enough years in to have mine.
However, I totally agree. It's a poor show that some do, and some don't.



The 3k figure for NR staff is off. It's a taxable benefit in kind to the value of about £670 (at least that's what my latest P11D said). I don't get £670 pa less salary than non-safeguarded without travel staff.

No, you get £670 more than non-safeguarded staff which is why you pay that extra bit of tax.

 

[Marklund]

No, you get £670 more than non-safeguarded staff which is why you pay that extra bit of tax.

My salary can be more than £670 different (less, not more) from other NR non-safeguarded maintenance staff who are on different ex-IMC conditions.
Funnily enough, you don't see outpouring of grief on the Connect forums near enough every week about that, unlike nearly every forum that Signallers post in about free* travel.

*it's not free. :roll:

 

[Llanigraham]

My salary can be more than £670 different (less, not more) from other NR non-safeguarded maintenance staff who are on different ex-IMC conditions.
Funnily enough, you don't see outpouring of grief on the Connect forums near enough every week about that, unlike nearly every forum that Signallers post in about free* travel.

*it's not free. :roll:

I'm trying to follow this argument, but having some trouble.
There are 4 staff in my signal box, we are all on the same grade so therefore the same basic wage, however only 1 of us is "safeguarded" (not me). He does NOT get an extra £670 per year.
And I regularly see complaints about no free travel for new staff on the Connect forums, normally followed by that stupid response of "get some time in" from a few bloody idiots.

 

[TCDD]

As someone who isn't staff and has no links to the railways apart from travelling on them, I personally think it is great that some sort of comradery still exists in our ridiculously fragmented railway set up. It is actually nice to see and is such a contrast to the way the rest of society seems to be going in.

I'd second that unreservedly!

 

[Haywain]

I'm trying to follow this argument, but having some trouble.
There are 4 staff in my signal box, we are all on the same grade so therefore the same basic wage, however only 1 of us is "safeguarded" (not me). He does NOT get an extra £670 per year.
And I regularly see complaints about no free travel for new staff on the Connect forums, normally followed by that stupid response of "get some time in" from a few bloody idiots.

I shall stick simply to the point I made. If you are taxed on a benefit in kind with a value of £670, then that means that in the eyes of the HMRC you are reciving that amount on top of the monetary value of your salary and the travel benefit is seen as earned income. Hence your safeguarded colleague does not receive an extra £670 per year, but he does receive a benefit which, for tax purposes, is given that value.

 

[Marklund]

There are 4 staff in my signal box, we are all on the same grade so therefore the same basic wage, however only 1 of us is "safeguarded" (not me). He does NOT get an extra £670 per year.

Correct, he's actually worse off, thanks to the tax paid for the benefit in kind, whether he uses it or not.

And I regularly see complaints about no free travel for new staff on the Connect forums, normally followed by that stupid response of "get some time in" from a few bloody idiots.

And you regularly see the same stupid comments like "It should be all or nothing" which annoy those who did get time in, on low wages, where the then un-taxed free travel made up very slightly for it.

Why should they have their privileges taken from them? :roll:

 

[Llanigraham]

And you regularly see the same stupid comments like "It should be all or nothing" which annoy those who did get time in, on low wages, where the then un-taxed free travel made up very slightly for it.

Why should they have their privileges taken from them? :roll:

The "get some time in" comment is the stupidest comment of all, and I suggest you think about what the words actually mean. I joined 7 years ago therefore how can I "get some time in"? Even if I worked for another 10 years I couldn't do that!!

And no-one has suggested that priv travel is taken away from anyone!! What people are asking for is parity in some way. Yes we knew that we weren't going to get it when we joined, but with this apparent extension to SOME staff surely something could be given to us? Or perhaps you are one of those "oldtimers" who think that we "new guns" aren't worthy of being called signalmen even though some of us pull the same levers and press the same block bells as you do/did.

I thought we were supposed to be a big family? There appears to be more support from the non-signalling or TOC staff on here sometimes!!