ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hexagon789]

Had the Valenta had the same treatment as the MTU, rather than being used and abused as it was, then it would no doubt have been even more reliable.

Hmm, you just have to watch old videos of HSTs to hear the abuse!

Now I imagine the MTUs get much gentler treatment. Certainly from what I've read in this thread there just isn't the need to thrash the living daylights out of them.

I posted this recently on another thread as it is totally inconsistent. As an example, 'HST' is apparently fine, but the three letter station codes (which are easily findable) aren't...

I wouldn't mind so much if it was consistent but it just isn't.

 

[alangla]

ScotRail aren’t leaving them with both power cars running are they? I’d somehow (naively) imagined that they’d have followed GWR/LNER practice and shut down the concourse end power car during turnarounds of more than a few minutes. TBH, given the stupid amounts of power/weight these things have, one could argue that the front one should shut down at the top of Slochd heading north and about Croy heading south...

 

[Highlandspring]

ScotRail aren’t leaving them with both power cars running are they? I’d somehow (naively) imagined that they’d have followed GWR/LNER practice and shut down the concourse end power car during turnarounds of more than a few minutes.

The ScotRail policy is that at stations the buffer end powercar is to be shut down if the turnaround is 20 minutes or more, the far end powercar is left running to provide ETS as long as it is not under the station roof or canopy. If you go to terminal stations you’ll find the buffer end powercar shut down within 2 or 3 minutes of arrival. Powercars in depots are to be shut down during fuelling or when required to be stabled for more than 2 hours, otherwise one powercar will remain running to provide ETS to the set unless plugged into a shore supply. Powercars in shed are only allowed to be running when making movements in or out, or where Local Exhaust Ventilation equipment is in use.

 

[alangla]

The ScotRail policy is that at stations the buffer end powercar is to be shut down if the turnaround is 20 minutes or more, the far end powercar is left running to provide ETS as long as it is not under the station roof or canopy. If you go to terminal stations you’ll find the buffer end powercar shut down within 2 or 3 minutes of arrival.

Thanks, sounds like they’ve chosen the sensible option in this case

 

[anamyd]

True, but they're still diesel. To think that the Valentas were belching out huge clouds of diesel fumes until just 10 years ago... MTUs are a lot cleaner although they do still pollute, and any amount of pollution is detrimental to the planet, but Scotrail don't seem to be doing anything about it right now.

not even 10 years ago; the last network Valenta power car was in service with Grand Central until 2010!

 

[anamyd]

Pretty obviously not Managing Director of East Coast.

It's the engine management system.

Always referred to as the MDEC, think it stands for MTU Diesel Engine Control.

Obviously not obvious to adrock1976

 

[DannyMich2018]

"Imminently"

We'll have to wait and see

 

[BRX]

May I ask for any comment on diesel emissions of these high speed trains, in stations.
I cannot see it discussed, but it surely is another area of consideration or concerns for enclosed stations like Glasgow Queen Street etc.
I know we are used to emissions in the past, but has anyone tested the air quality and wondered about the continual running of diesel engines in enclosed spaces like Inverness.
While I think it is great to have these trains, surely there are more up to date concerns about those staff working prolonged periods and passengers in enclosed stations.
Regrettably these trains may be another short sighted response rather than one of future proofing a cleaner environment. Another reason to speed electrification to Perth and beyond.

If it's true that the practice is to shut down the engine at the buffers end, then this confines all the exhaust fumes to the furthest point from passengers, so potentially the HSTs might represent an improvement on DMUs as far as the air quality in stations is concerned.

 

[Wst71Pa2]

If it's true that the practice is to shut down the engine at the buffers end, then this confines all the exhaust fumes to the furthest point from passengers, so potentially the HSTs might represent an improvement on DMUs as far as the air quality in stations is concerned.

Not quite, 158's and 170's shut down without a key in after 10-15 mins

 

[chuff chuff]

Yes but as Highlandspring said the buffer end power car is usually shutdown within a couple of minutes so perhaps a slight improvement as no one I know of shutdown a 170 or 158 on arrival.

 

[chuff chuff]

As someone said further up the thread there does seem quite a few hst’s out and about this week.
In fact I've been booked 5 hst runs this week been a full house so far and my run today is looking good,that by far is a personal best.

 

[adrock1976]

Could somebody clarify if powercars 43033 and 43130 are in passenger service in Scotland, or have they disappeared/still based at Ely/Doncaster or wherever?

 

[nat67]

Could somebody clarify if powercars 43033 and 43130 are in passenger service in Scotland, or have they disappeared/still based at Ely/Doncaster or wherever?

They could be on training duties mind.

 

[43096]

Could somebody clarify if powercars 43033 and 43130 are in passenger service in Scotland, or have they disappeared/still based at Ely/Doncaster or wherever?

Both are in Scotland. There are no ScotRail power cars at Ely.

 

[chuff chuff]

Could somebody clarify if powercars 43033 and 43130 are in passenger service in Scotland, or have they disappeared/still based at Ely/Doncaster or wherever?

Pretty sure I saw those two out and about today.

 

[adrock1976]

Both are in Scotland. There are no ScotRail power cars at Ely.

Pretty sure I saw those two out and about today.

Many thanks for confirming.

 

[7522]

Had Power Cars 43135 and 43176 on the 12:55 from Inverness - Edinburgh today. I was in coach C 42280. I was waiting in Inverness before the train arrived from its previous journey so I did see that when it arrived, Power Car 43176 was shut down immediately. As stated above, this does seem to be the policy to shut down the leading power car in stations. On this occasion the train arrived just after 12:00 so would have been idling for around 50 minutes if not shut down.

This is the first time I have done a Scotrail HST. I regularly use LNER and CrossCountry HST's but not any others. I had no real issues with the classic interior. The lack of tables is certainly noticeable but the work at Wabtec will be sorting that. Other than that I found the interior comfortable, bright and clean. There was noticeably less squeaking noise from the vestibule than an LNER HST. This was a busy service so the extra room of the HST was needed.

Before each stop the guard announced that it was slam door and explained the door opening procedure.

We did arrive into Edinburgh around 13 minutes late but this was not related to the HST (I believe it was a passenger incident in Coach D).

Overall I thought the HST provided a good journey and I can only see that improving with the refurbished sets. Hope that Scotrail can work on the roll out and reliability.

 

[nat67]

Had Power Cars 43135 and 43176 on the 12:55 from Inverness - Edinburgh today. I was in coach C 42280. I was waiting in Inverness before the train arrived from its previous journey so I did see that when it arrived, Power Car 43176 was shut down immediately. As stated above, this does seem to be the policy to shut down the leading power car in stations. On this occasion the train arrived just after 12:00 so would have been idling for around 50 minutes if not shut down.

This is the first time I have done a Scotrail HST. I regularly use LNER and CrossCountry HST's but not any others. I had no real issues with the classic interior. The lack of tables is certainly noticeable but the work at Wabtec will be sorting that. Other than that I found the interior comfortable, bright and clean. There was noticeably less squeaking noise from the vestibule than an LNER HST. This was a busy service so the extra room of the HST was needed.

Before each stop the guard announced that it was slam door and explained the door opening procedure.

We did arrive into Edinburgh around 13 minutes late but this was not related to the HST (I believe it was a passenger incident in Coach D).

Overall I thought the HST provided a good journey and I can only see that improving with the refurbished sets. Hope that Scotrail can work on the roll out and reliability.

At Kings Cross, Paddington & St Pancras HST Power cars that are on the blocks are always shut down. Unless the service going back out is late and has a right turn around.

 

[Stoney1979]

Talking to a pal (who couldn't care less about specific trains) over the weekend and who was on a Classic recently, he commented on how it was "nice to have a big, proper train with plenty of seats".

 

[JohnR]

Talking to a pal (who couldn't care less about specific trains) over the weekend and who was on a Classic recently, he commented on how it was "nice to have a big, proper train with plenty of seats".

That seems to be a common response. People not happy about the doors, and coaches sometimes seem to have faulty sockets on the classics, but overall the perception is an improvement over the 170s - especially at peak times.

 

[Northhighland]

That seems to be a common response. People not happy about the doors, and coaches sometimes seem to have faulty sockets on the classics, but overall the perception is an improvement over the 170s - especially at peak times.

The general impression of the classics is positive, very positive. To the point where people moan about a 170. Scotrail just need to get on top of the reliability and staffing and we are on a winner.

A bit of work though to get reliability up where it needs to be. I am sure though this is very achievable.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know which of the refurbished sets is parked in the sidings Dundee at the moment?

 

[FQTV]

Had Power Cars 43135 and 43176 on the 12:55 from Inverness - Edinburgh today. I was in coach C 42280. I was waiting in Inverness before the train arrived from its previous journey so I did see that when it arrived, Power Car 43176 was shut down immediately. As stated above, this does seem to be the policy to shut down the leading power car in stations. On this occasion the train arrived just after 12:00 so would have been idling for around 50 minutes if not shut down.

This is the first time I have done a Scotrail HST. I regularly use LNER and CrossCountry HST's but not any others. I had no real issues with the classic interior. The lack of tables is certainly noticeable but the work at Wabtec will be sorting that. Other than that I found the interior comfortable, bright and clean. There was noticeably less squeaking noise from the vestibule than an LNER HST. This was a busy service so the extra room of the HST was needed.

Before each stop the guard announced that it was slam door and explained the door opening procedure.

We did arrive into Edinburgh around 13 minutes late but this was not related to the HST (I believe it was a passenger incident in Coach D).

Overall I thought the HST provided a good journey and I can only see that improving with the refurbished sets. Hope that Scotrail can work on the roll out and reliability.

I was getting on the 12:47 to Nairn as your service was boarding, and heard quite a few positive comments from other passengers heading for the 12:55 along the lines of ‘ooh, it’s a ‘proper’ train’.

We were less lucky yesterday on the 13:33 from Inverness to Edinburgh.

We had arrived in from Elgin on First Advances, on a 158 with no First and no seat reservations throughout. Someone had been ‘ill’ in one of the two coaches, so that was rather grim, too.

Arrived at Inverness into Platform 2, which was also booked for our Edinburgh HST to find a 170 and a 158 already stacked.

Realtime Trains didn’t show the HST coming in from the depot as having moved and, sure enough, the departures board started scrolling that Edinburgh would be three carriages only.

Again, we were on First Advances, and luckily managed to get seats, as there were obviously no reservations throughout. There was also no trolley.

The air conditioning was arctic, and we were delayed at Tomatin with signalling issues.

We came to an emergency stop somewhere in Perthshire with what sounded like a warning klaxon going in the back cab. No explanation of what that was all about, even after restarting.

Finally ground into Waverley 34 minutes late, with the boards at intermediate stations advising that the delay was ‘due to late running’.

Not a great journey, altogether, and no HST, so this post is almost completely off-topic.

 

[alangla]

Finally ground into Waverley 34 minutes late, with the boards at intermediate stations advising that the delay was ‘due to late running’.

Not a great journey, altogether, and no HST, so this post is almost completely off-topic.

On the plus side, you’re into Delay Repay territory, plus the missing first class on your A2I train, so you should hopefully get a decent percentage back.

 

[Thunderer]

This may be incidental, but there's a lot of good design on an HST - one of my more experienced colleagues said it was built like a Vulcan bomber, hand built, with lots of redundant systems that you could bypass if you had an issue...

That (plus many other facts) has made the HST train a real winner over the last 40+ years. Too many complex and sensitive computer systems on these modern trains now, so more scope for faults. I was 20 late leaving Swansea the other week as they couldn't over-ride the fault on the 800 to close the doors - it was a "system glitch". Same again a week or so later as they struggled to couple 2 five car 800's at Swansea, we were sat there for nearly half an hour until it finally worked. All this fanfare and hype over the IEP, when all it has brought are more technical problems and a downgrade in the customer experience. The HST was a simple, robust, not too complex Great British design and build that has proved itself time and time again as a great train.

 

[Struner]

But it's the lack of TLC .

 

[marks87]

Does anyone know which of the refurbished sets is parked in the sidings Dundee at the moment?

One of the power cars is 43139 if that helps ID it.

 

[Bassman]

The ScotRail policy is that at stations the buffer end powercar is to be shut down if the turnaround is 20 minutes or more, the far end powercar is left running to provide ETS as long as it is not under the station roof or canopy. If you go to terminal stations you’ll find the buffer end powercar shut down within 2 or 3 minutes of arrival. Powercars in depots are to be shut down during fuelling or when required to be stabled for more than 2 hours, otherwise one powercar will remain running to provide ETS to the set unless plugged into a shore supply. Powercars in shed are only allowed to be running when making movements in or out, or where Local Exhaust Ventilation equipment is in use.

Thanks for this response to my query, and for the other comments. It still seems to be an issue, but is being addressed. The interesting thing remains about the testing of air quality in enclosed stations or depots.

 

[hwl]

Thanks for this response to my query, and for the other comments. It still seems to be an issue, but is being addressed. The interesting thing remains about the testing of air quality in enclosed stations or depots.

The MTU engines in the HST power cars (fitted ~2008-10) only had to comply with UIC-II emissions levels when fitted but it complies with Euro3a for everything apart from NOx (and they almost comply with Euro3a for that)

 

[kidman123]

There's a 5 car classic at top end of Haymarket out the road just sitting there been there past 4 days doing nothing baby reason why that is