TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[47802]

That is what they have done though. The non gangway end of the coach is where the small galley kitchen and Guards area is located. It's a small area so passengers won't be allowed to access it.

Indeed so its essentially similar to an 802 or intercity EMU in layout but with a loco acting as a power unit plonked on one end. Some people seem to be finding that concept difficult to grasp, I suppose they were expecting some kind of updated MK3's

 

[Domh245]

A diesel powered 397 is whole different ball game which may not exist, additional 802's would have been more likely but the key issue as already stated was the delivery schedule and quickly they could got into service.

I suspect that a diesel 397 would be probably be delivered in a similar timescale to these, I don't think any more than 3 to 6 months behind these. The electric 397s aren't too far off, and I suspect that a diesel 397 would share the bodyshells, and then simply marry them up with the drivetrain of a 195, but that's getting a bit off topic

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect that a diesel 397 would be probably be delivered in a similar timescale to these, I don't think any more than 3 to 6 months behind these. The electric 397s aren't too far off, and I suspect that a diesel 397 would share the bodyshells, and then simply marry them up with the drivetrain of a 195, but that's getting a bit off topic

Might not be able to fit the diesel gubbins under a 22m (rather than 23-24m) vehicle? The reason they were quick was not that they were LHCS specifically, but rather that they used the jigs used for the (also 22m) Caledonian Sleeper coaches. There haven't been any conventional "high speed" DMUs built with vehicles shorter than 23m since the Class 150 in the mid 1980s, and much more extra emissions stuff is required now. Sure, there's the 230, but it's a low-speed unit with far smaller engines.

 

[47802]

I suspect that a diesel 397 would be probably be delivered in a similar timescale to these, I don't think any more than 3 to 6 months behind these. The electric 397s aren't too far off, and I suspect that a diesel 397 would share the bodyshells, and then simply marry them up with the drivetrain of a 195, but that's getting a bit off topic

Really I doubt that very much, unless you work for CAF and have some insider knowledge that's very much extremely wild speculation, CAF may have not even considered a Diesel version of the 397 or Bi-mode at this stage, added to which the 397 is a 125mph EMU, and if they wanted a Diesel equivalent you would likely be looking at higher powered engines than a 195 for starters.

 

[BMIFlyer]

 

[BMIFlyer]

That could of course be an error/unfinished paint scheme which is changed at a later date, from the video of the galley area which is earlier in the thread it looks unlikely to me that passengers would be allowed in that area or be able to walk through it.

The blunt area contains the guards office and the adjacent galley.

Bit of a poor design feature having a destination display (that's what the long box above the window line is) at that end of the coach then!

The guard still needs to know where the train is going....

One sensible reason, at the time of ordering, was that electrification was still progressing, and the idea that the Class 68 might be replaced in the next 20-30 years or so with an electric locomotive was not far-fetched (remember trains typically have a 30-50 year lifespan in frontline service). It still isn't far-fetched that it might be replaced with some other means of self-power than diesel.

But I believe the main reason was speed of delivery.

The ultimate plan also is that if the line from Manchester to Leeds is ever wired, the 68's can be changed for 88's - it is the reason why the stock can do 125mph but the class 68's can only do 100.

 

[47802]

The ultimate plan also is that if the line from Manchester to Leeds is ever wired, the 68's can be changed for 88's - it is the reason why the stock can do 125mph but the class 68's can only do 100.

Is that fact or just speculation on your part. The current 88's are not specified for 125mph, if TPE is electrified there are potentially a few options, and if we end up with discontinuous electrification then a larger fleet of 802's would seem likely. Anyway that's for the future and much relevemt to current loco hauled introduction.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Is that fact or just speculation on your part. The current 88's are not specified for 125mph, if TPE is electrified there are potentially a few options, and if we end up with discontinuous electrification then a larger fleet of 802's would seem likely. Anyway that's for the future and much relevemt to current loco hauled introduction.

Not speculation - it's in the franchise agreement regarding using 68's, then after wiring the 88's until a 125mph electric loco can be sourced, maybe a full electric version of said locomotive.

 

[Bantamzen]

View attachment 43807

Oh my, I like how that looks!! Can't wait for them to start running up and over t'Pennines!!

 

[DarloRich]

when are they scheduled to be in service?

 

[47802]

Not speculation - it's in the franchise agreement regarding using 68's, then after wiring the 88's until a 125mph electric loco can be sourced, maybe a full electric version of said locomotive.

Ok fair enough however we will be likely on the next franchise by the time the route is electrified if it is electrified.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not speculation - it's in the franchise agreement regarding using 68's, then after wiring the 88's until a 125mph electric loco can be sourced, maybe a full electric version of said locomotive.

A lot has happened (or rather not happened) since the TPE franchise agreement was signed.
I don't think you can depend on out of date plans for electric infrastructure.
There might not be any more wires in this franchise period.

 

[Bletchleyite]

View attachment 43807

Wow, just wow. That looks absolutely spot on in just about every way.

Apart from, I guess, that if it grows loadings enough it'll need another couple of coaches. And it could do with the yellow stripe for 1st, though I suppose that could be added later.

 

[Chester1]

The ultimate plan also is that if the line from Manchester to Leeds is ever wired, the 68's can be changed for 88's - it is the reason why the stock can do 125mph but the class 68's can only do 100.

Not speculation - it's in the franchise agreement regarding using 68's, then after wiring the 88's until a 125mph electric loco can be sourced, maybe a full electric version of said locomotive.

With the failure of electrification nationwide if Manchester to Leeds is wired I would be surprised if the Mark Vs stay long. 12 x 5 Mark Vs hauled by 68s could be used by multiple opperators who would struggle to justify new intercity/regional express DMUs. Using the folow on order in the 397 contract or 801s would reduce the variation in the fleet and would be straightforward to obtain. If Grayling gets his way and there are short gaps in the wires due to tunnels and bridges then a 801 with a battery rather than a backup diesel engine would make more sense than trying to buy 12 locos with batteries that can do 125mph!

 

[mushroomchow]

I never noticed the way the coloured sections seem to look like mountains and hills in the spec. Nice touch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With the failure of electrification nationwide if Manchester to Leeds is wired I would be surprised if the Mark Vs stay long. 12 x 5 Mark Vs hauled by 68s could be used by multiple opperators who would struggle to justify new intercity/regional express DMUs. Using the folow on order in the 397 contract or 801s would reduce the variation in the fleet and would be straightforward to obtain. If Grayling gets his way and there are short gaps in the wires due to tunnels and bridges then a 801 with a battery rather than a backup diesel engine would make more sense than trying to buy 12 locos with batteries that can do 125mph!

Quite possibly so. There is almost no disadvantage to using EMUs over electric loco-hauled stock and many advantages (the Southern worked that out years ago), while for diesel there are many advantages of LHCS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I never noticed the way the coloured sections seem to look like mountains and hills in the spec. Nice touch.

So they do. For some reason, I don't know why, it looks like it wouldn't be out of place somewhere like Canada. Whatever, though, I think it looks great and I can't wait to have a ride on one.

 

[AlterEgo]

Looks great. Can't wait until they're introduced. Hopefully the interior spec is as good as the exterior...

 

[47802]

Quite possibly so. There is almost no disadvantage to using EMUs over electric loco-hauled stock and many advantages (the Southern worked that out years ago), while for diesel there are many advantages of LHCS.

Really I don't think the train operators share that view given that these are the first new Diesel Loco Hauled Trains for decades

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So they do. For some reason, I don't know why, it looks like it wouldn't be out of place somewhere like Canada. Whatever, though, I think it looks great and I can't wait to have a ride on one.

Well, the last LHCS built for GB ended up in Canada... and with all the route modernisation stuff up in the air, who knows?

Hope not though, as they look fantastic!

 

[class387]

Wow, just wow. That looks absolutely spot on in just about every way.

Apart from, I guess, that if it grows loadings enough it'll need another couple of coaches. And it could do with the yellow stripe for 1st, though I suppose that could be added later.

Agreed. Doesn't look much like a British train though (not that that's a bad thing).

 

[driver9000]

when are they scheduled to be in service?

December.

 

[hexagon789]

View attachment 43807

Looks very impressive, can't wait for their introduction into service to see what they are like in service.

 

[RichJF]

I'm still getting used to the wheels & modern bogie arrangement (a la 700s style). Still looks alien to me but getting used to it!

One of the smartest UK liveries in a while in my view.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm still getting used to the wheels & modern bogie arrangement (a la 700s style). Still looks alien to me but getting used to it!

Been about for a while - Classes 220 and 222 are like that too.

 

[InOban]

I thought I remember reading somewhere that it is almost impossible to meet the latest emission regulations with underfloor engines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought I remember reading somewhere that it is almost impossible to meet the latest emission regulations with underfloor engines.

You get claims like this, and then they get disproven.

It was almost impossible to have proper cab end gangways, leading to silly designs like the Juniper EMU, then came the Electrostar and Desiro fleets with, er, proper cab end gangways. (That Hitachi have stuffed it up is neither here nor there).

It was almost impossible to have properly-sized overhead luggage racks, then came the Desiros, Pendolinos and Class 800s.

It was almost impossible to meet the latest emissions regulations with underfloor engines, then came the Class 195s and 800s.

Normally, these things aren't actually true. Good engineers find a way, bad engineers make excuses. (Even worse ones claim they have when they haven't - yes, you and your dodgy cab windscreens, Hitachi).

 

[bastien]

You get claims like this, and then they get disproven.

It was almost impossible to have proper cab end gangways, leading to silly designs like the Juniper EMU, then came the Electrostar and Desiro fleets with, er, proper cab end gangways. (That Hitachi have stuffed it up is neither here nor there).

It was almost impossible to have properly-sized overhead luggage racks, then came the Desiros, Pendolinos and Class 800s.

It was almost impossible to meet the latest emissions regulations with underfloor engines, then came the Class 195s and 800s.

Normally, these things aren't actually true. Good engineers find a way, bad engineers make excuses. (Even worse ones claim they have when they haven't - yes, you and your dodgy cab windscreens, Hitachi).

Remember when we couldn't have people in the leading vehicle over (I think) 100mph? Or 25kV bus lines along the roof? All completely impossible, don't you know...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Remember when we couldn't have people in the leading vehicle over (I think) 100mph? Or 25kV bus lines along the roof? All completely impossible, don't you know...

Oh, yes, forgot those

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Remember when we couldn't have people in the leading vehicle over (I think) 100mph? Or 25kV bus lines along the roof? All completely impossible, don't you know...

Or non-yellow front ends...