They used to be commonplace across the network.I'm sure I've seen some platforms with a big movable sign saying "Front train beyond this point"
Not seen them at Manchester Piccadilly though.I'm sure I've seen some platforms with a big movable sign saying "Front train beyond this point"
Sounds sensible to me. Perhaps other locations could learn, if it isn't going to cause problems.I leave them open unless it’s going to cause a problem. If they need to be closed then so be it.
Whilst I don't disagree with you, try telling a guard that after loopthey get in trouble because someone accidentally got on the wrong train and ended up in the siding.Now why am I not surprised you answered with more excuses. The cynic in me just thinks your having an argument just for the sake of it. If people don't take notice of departure times or where their train leaves from and they get on the wrong train then it's down to them, no one else, it is called personal responsibility!
Something I admit is lacking in the modern world becsuse even politicians blame everyone else, even though it was their decision which made the sh!t hit the fan. Give it a few more years and people will be employing someone else to wipe their bottom, becuse they'll have no personal responsibility to do it themselves !!
Indeed.
You only have to look at the 'What is a train' thread. Some of the posters on here really should be on 'Question Time' !!
Sounds sensible to me. Perhaps other locations could learn, if it isn't going to cause problems.
Whilst I don't disagree with you, try telling a guard that after loopthey get in trouble because someone accidentally got on the wrong train and ended up in the siding.
That almost happened to me. Thankfully someone let me off just in time. Someone who did go through checking but I needed the lol and popped in the toilet and some how got missed.
My fault entirely but had I ended up in the sidings I doubt I'd be the one in trouble.
Brighton still has them kicking around, although I've seen them used less since Thameslink transitioned to 700s.I'm sure I've seen some platforms with a big movable sign saying "Front train beyond this point"
They used to be commonplace across the network.
Not seen them at Manchester Piccadilly though.
The 'Glossop' anecdote (or a variation on it) is a very real demonstration of the 'multiple train' problem. Hope Valley locals often had a TPE Hull train 'pop in and out, on top' after a significant number of Hull passengers had already joined the local, who then ended up missing it.
Brighton still has them kicking around, although I've seen them used less since Thameslink transitioned to 700s.
At Southern Cross down here on Platforms 15/16 they have signs telling pax which train is going where.I'm sure I've seen some platforms with a big movable sign saying "Front train beyond this point"
We put the unit number on our PIDs at Southern Cross:As an irregular 'punter' I find 'front train' confusing. It may be thought clear when one approaches via and end-of platform barrier at a terminal station; not so, for reason stated above. Front is the first you come to. I seem to recall a visit to Glasgow Central with three trains in the same platform, and no 1a, Ib etc.
I'm sure I've seen some platforms with a big movable sign saying "Front train beyond this point"
At Southern Cross down here on Platforms 15/16 they have signs telling pax which train is going where.
Additional signs deployed to indicate the Traralgon and South Geelong services both departing from Southern Cross platform 16
Photographs of trains and railway infrastructure from around Victoria, Australiarailgallery.wongm.com
We put the unit number on our PIDs at Southern Cross:
In the case of a Sprinter it will show up as "SPRINTERS 7xxx-7xxx"Next two departure from Southern Cross Station are to 'not in service'
Photographs of trains and railway infrastructure from around Victoria, Australiarailgallery.wongm.com
In this case refering to a VLocity.
And only put front or rear x cars if the train is being split:
Wendouree and Bacchus Marsh trains next to depart from Southern Cross platform 3 and 4
Custom message indicating only 3-cars headed as far as Wendouree, passengers for Rockbank need to change to a bus at Caroline Springsrailgallery.wongm.com
I have never seen on of those!
The problem with Man Picc is that it doesn't (or didn't) split it's platforms up into 1a, 1b, 1c etc. It was all just platform 1. Leading to the whole, train at the front, middle and back issue.
At least at Leeds there is a 1a/b/c and then as long as the trains stopped in the correct place it's really then up to the passenger to look at whether it's a/b or c.
As someone alluded to earlier, if the Nottingham is going from 17b and the Knottingley is going from 17a, it's clear to those that look at the platform signage which part of the platform is which.
Obviously, there's an issue if the platforms don't have correct or prominent signage. After all how many people spend ages trying to find platform 2c at Sheffield?
That's good as long as people walk far enough down to see the sign. when boarding trains passengers generally take little notice of signs anyway as their mind is pre occupied. Will also require a staff member to ensure its left in the correct place.I'm sure I've seen some platforms with a big movable sign saying "Front train beyond this point"
Hi all, I did a quick search but couldn't find anything discussing this issue so here goes
What is standard practice regarding keeping trains locked or unlocked while sitting on platforms? I showed up at Aberdeen 15 minutes early and tapped through the gates only to find the train locked and passengers sitting on the platform, despite it being "on" (engines running). I tweeted ScotRail about this at the time to ask if the doors could be unlocked but received no response, so submitted a complaint. After an initial "we'll pass that on" I asked again and today I was told that apparently the train needs to be locked as it was sitting there for a few hours and others depart from the same platform. Train crews don't attend the train until five minutes before departure so this is why it was locked.
While it's good ScotRail took the time to write a better response I'm a bit confused. I don't think they'd leave the engines on for "a few hours", why does two trains on the same platform mean one has to be locked, and if the traincrew were there to turn the engines on then why can't they have opened the doors?
I know in the grand scheme of things its only a small problem (a "first world problem"!) which is why I initially tweeted lightheartedly but was disappointed that this didn't receive a response from ScotRail's usually excellent team. Plus the issue is made worse by the low service frequencies (hourly), there being hardly any seats on the platform, and the adjacent Union Square having very little public seating and what is there is hard with no back rest, and much of it is closed due to coronavirus. It is an inconvenience for me but could be an accessibility issue for elderly and/or disabled people who may arrive early for their train.
Is locked trains a common occurrence? Usually, they're left unlocked at Aberdeen. I thought I'd make this thread in case others would like to share their experiences or knowledge. Thanks
Hardly seriously cold or exposed at Euston or Waterloo which people have been citing.Whichever way one looks at it, local factors invariable mean local working practices, which essentially means staff.
It’s a pretty shoddy spectacle for a crowd of people to be left standing in the cold until the guard turns up, which in the majority of cases is what people will experience.
“That’s how we do things here” isn’t really acceptable.
First world problemsHonestly do you have nothing better to do that you have to complain because you couldn't board a train early.
Where does it say in any terms between you and the toc that they must let you board the train early.
What happens when you get to a station mid route do you expect a train to be left there, unlocked for you to sit on because you turned up early for it?
Honestly know wonder tocs take so long to respond to genuine complaints when they have drivel like this to shift through
Agreed, I know London Euston used to have them although that was some time ago I was last had any need to use the station.That's good as long as people walk far enough down to see the sign. when boarding trains passengers generally take little notice of signs anyway as their mind is pre occupied. Will also require a staff member to ensure its left in the correct place.
Hardly seriously cold or exposed at Euston or Waterloo which people have been citing.
First world problems
A lot of people have given constructive answers why it doesn't happen, and the practicalities do vary quite substantially between locationsI don’t get this attitude that people should be grateful for what they get. If the original poster felt aggrieved then they have every right to communicate this to the TOC, I can guarantee that the TOCs will be getting a lot worse than that.
Secondly, it’s something which is actually pretty easily resolved, by a simple change to local arrangements.
I don’t buy the comparison with intermediate stations. Are we going to turf people off trains where there’s a few minutes stand time at an intermediate station simply because it’s a “first world problem” for it to be preferable to sit on the train, in greater comfort, and being able to get on with stuff like work?
All I can see in this thread is “this isn’t how we do things here”, and it does unfortunately bring out the worst of the stereotype that the railway is run for the convenience of the staff rather than the end user. Fortunately not everywhere seems to take this attitude - King’s Cross for example have always been very good about opening up trains where possible, including down to station staff being allowed to open up trains (something which over the years they’ve been very proactive in doing as far as possible).
At Euston 8- and 12-car trains are regularly locked until less than 5 minutes before departure. It actually helps space people along the train, incidentally.One can’t help but wonder if the attitude that it’s easier to lock up would change if the staff involved were having to go to the bother of closing up an 8 or 12 car train, rather than a 2-car Sprinter. What’s the betting a lot of these “reasons” would disappear, or there be clamour to get them sorted out where there is a genuine technical issue?
Ironically l would agree more than you would expect with the general thrust of your argument. I also see that there are issues potentially associated with letting passengers on earlyI don’t get this attitude that people should be grateful for what they get. If the original poster felt aggrieved then they have every right to communicate this to the TOC, I can guarantee that the TOCs will be getting a lot worse than that.
Secondly, it’s something which is actually pretty easily resolved, by a simple change to local arrangements.
I don’t buy the comparison with intermediate stations. Are we going to turf people off trains where there’s a few minutes stand time at an intermediate station simply because it’s a “first world problem” for it to be preferable to sit on the train, in greater comfort, and being able to get on with stuff like work?
All I can see in this thread is “this isn’t how we do things here”, and it does unfortunately bring out the worst of the stereotype that the railway is run for the convenience of the staff rather than the end user. Fortunately not everywhere seems to take this attitude - King’s Cross for example have always been very good about opening up trains where possible, including down to station staff being allowed to open up trains (something which over the years they’ve been very proactive in doing as far as possible).
One can’t help but wonder if the attitude that it’s easier to lock up would change if the staff involved were having to go to the bother of closing up an 8 or 12 car train, rather than a 2-car Sprinter. What’s the betting a lot of these “reasons” would disappear, or there be clamour to get them sorted out where there is a genuine technical issue?
The 101s were often locked up with a T-key; there was one particular diagram where a set arrived off a morning peak service and stayed in the station all morning and most of the afternoon as it formed the 1556 to Marple.The 101s were sometimes locked up at Piccadilly if they were laying over for a while and only unlocked by dispatchers/guards shortly before they were due to depart. So it's been like this a while.
That's actually for the benefit of the V/Line staff because their docking sheets are so vague, but that's not to say it doesn't help the odd enlightened passenger tooWe put the unit number on our PIDs at Southern Cross:
In the case of a Sprinter it will show up as "SPRINTERS 7xxx-7xxx"
In this case refering to a VLocity.
Northern used to do this with a Sprinter in P7 at York, I guess as a hot spare.The 101s were often locked up with a T-key; there was one particular diagram where a set arrived off a morning peak service and stayed in the station all morning and most of the afternoon as it formed the 1556 to Marple.
Whichever way one looks at it, local factors invariable mean local working practices, which essentially means staff.
It’s a pretty shoddy spectacle for a crowd of people to be left standing in the cold until the guard turns up, which in the majority of cases is what people will experience.
“That’s how we do things here” isn’t really acceptable.
Ironically l would agree more than you would expect with the general thrust of your argument. I also see that there are issues potentially associated with letting passengers on early
when with the abundance of modern information systems there should be little reason for anyone to find themselves on the wrong train. Closing up trains is a rather clumsy solution simply because the railway can’t find a way of imparting information.
I don’t get this attitude that people should be grateful for what they get. If the original poster felt aggrieved then they have every right to communicate this to the TOC, I can guarantee that the TOCs will be getting a lot worse than that.
Secondly, it’s something which is actually pretty easily resolved, by a simple change to local arrangements.
I don’t buy the comparison with intermediate stations. Are we going to turf people off trains where there’s a few minutes stand time at an intermediate station simply because it’s a “first world problem” for it to be preferable to sit on the train, in greater comfort, and being able to get on with stuff like work?
All I can see in this thread is “this isn’t how we do things here”, and it does unfortunately bring out the worst of the stereotype that the railway is run for the convenience of the staff rather than the end user. Fortunately not everywhere seems to take this attitude - King’s Cross for example have always been very good about opening up trains where possible, including down to station staff being allowed to open up trains (something which over the years they’ve been very proactive in doing as far as possible).
One can’t help but wonder if the attitude that it’s easier to lock up would change if the staff involved were having to go to the bother of closing up an 8 or 12 car train, rather than a 2-car Sprinter. What’s the betting a lot of these “reasons” would disappear, or there be clamour to get them sorted out where there is a genuine technical issue?
Probably the same number that can't find P17 at Leeds. I've been walking down the stairs to 16/17 and had someone call across from the up escalator who's trying to find it!Obviously, there's an issue if the platforms don't have correct or prominent signage. After all how many people spend ages trying to find platform 2c at Sheffield?
I don’t have an issue when there are genuine good reasons (the one about the seat reservation uploading I’d count as one, though equally something for which a technical solution should have been found).
What’s more of a problem is some of the odd reasons cropping up, some of them pretty far-fetched to be honest.
Likewise the thing about people getting on the wrong train. This is essentially transferring the inconvenience from one group of passengers to another, when with the abundance of modern information systems there should be little reason for anyone to find themselves on the wrong train. Closing up trains is a rather clumsy solution simply because the railway can’t find a way of imparting information.
It also doesn't help them get on the right train either thoughIf you lock the doors on the rear unit people cannot get on the wrong train.
This is an interesting sub-point, because despite considerable expenditure on such information systems, they often seem to lack the ability to display much useful stuff. Dot matrix signs that don't have the ability to display quite sufficient words. PA announcements about the "last carriage doors will not open" blasted along the whole long train rather than just in the relevant carriage. Station staff, who are on duty on the platform, unable to do anything about the train display while the crew doesn't turn up until 5 minutes before. And so on.when with the abundance of modern information systems there should be little reason for anyone to find themselves on the wrong train.