ChooChooChloe
Member
- Joined
- 25 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 19
Indeed! Thanks
Geez, am I on trial or something? Heaven forbid I have an opinion!
Central Trains had a no-growth franchise too, so they make an interesting comparison.
CT: ordered a 33-strong fleet of 170s. Shared 30 350s with Silverlink.
ATW: no new units.
CT: repeatedly cut off-peak fares to grow ridership.
ATW: nope. Some of the most extortionate regional fares in Britain, and some pretty unjustifiable pricing anomalies too.
I use the Marches Line frequently (and services from Gloucester and along the South Wales main line infrequently). They are pretty much the most unpleasant services I travel on, in terms of crowding, high prices, inconvenient timetabling and poor-quality stock. Maybe elsewhere they're better, but my real-world experience is that ATW - despite some excellent on-the-ground staff - has been run as a don't-give-a-**** operation comparable to the old Thames Trains or, guess what, today's CrossCountry.
I use the Marches Line quite often. Can't remember the last time I had to stand. Haven't noticed the fares being out of kilter with other operators. A basic hourly service along the Crewe - Cardiff section (plus 2hourly Shrewsbury - Cardiff) is miles better than what it was historically. And "poor quality stock"? Really? 175s - perhaps the most comfortable DMUs in existence! (Though they could do with a refurb and some TLC)
ATW have always worked to the franchise spec. Nothing more, nothing less. That was their contract.
The service at the station I travel to most frequently, Church Stretton, is full of gaps at times people want to travel - partly, though not entirely, thanks to the recent botched changes on the HoWL (see threads here passim). The fare from my local station to Marches Line stations has a £23 leap between two stations eight miles apart. Standing is fairly common in my experience on Sundays, when the service goes down to 1tp2h - absolutely pitiful for a town whose main business is walking tourism.
175s are ok, although greatly underspecced for luggage storage given that they're used on airport services - the supposed bike space is often overflowing with suitcases ....
ATW have always worked to the franchise spec. Nothing more, nothing less. That was their contract. If anything additional has been introduced the Welsh Government have been behind it or perhaps ATW have squeezed resources to avoid any costs.
Why do I get a feeling another one of the three remaining candidates will drop out before the ITT becomes public?
(One fault with 175s I find is the overhead luggage racks are rubbish to putting bags in)
It is easy to see why Stagecoach are regarded more highly as even EMT refurbished all their trains internally and run ex BR DMUS... was that in their contract?
Arriva have to my knowledge never refurbished all their trains but adopt a 'that will do' approach and do things very piecemeal
I don't buy the fact the voyagers can't have new interior decor because of DDA legislation for example
Haven't 142s gone around for years with valley lines interiors from the 90s?
The service at the station I travel to most frequently, Church Stretton, is full of gaps at times people want to travel - partly, though not entirely, thanks to the recent botched changes on the HoWL (see threads here passim).
175s are ok, although greatly underspecced for luggage storage given that they're used on airport services - the supposed bike space is often overflowing with suitcases - but the 14Xs from Gloucester are an embarrassment, as are the 150s that still creep out onto Marches services (such as the 21.55 from Cardiff, which I catch now and then).
I wouldn't dispute that it's possible to have a good travelling experience on ATW and clearly some people do. But it's not a universal experience, and the rabid "no criticism of ATW is valid" attitudes of a couple of posters in this thread smacks a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Well, perhaps another Syndrome...
I mean, you have seen the state of the Meridians right?As I said, Stagecoach would never tolerate it.
I mean, you have seen the state of the Meridians right?
I have always expected Abellio to win, though, ever since I saw that their bid was being fronted by a former Welsh Labour MP. That just seemed too convenient
you might be surprised with what is proposed.
My gut feeling when I saw this was that Arriva have withdrawn because the trams are coming
That's a totally uneducated assumption, of course. And I am an eternal pessimist. But something tells me that they are jumping ship because they don't want to get involved in what's coming, because it's not going to be pretty. I have absolutely no faith in Skates to make the right decision here
I have always expected Abellio to win, though, ever since I saw that their bid was being fronted by a former Welsh Labour MP. That just seemed too convenient
The ITT is never going to be made public. We won't get any details of what TfW / Welsh Govt has specified until the announcement of the final award is made.
And yes, I agree, another bidder probably will drop out. The mess over the transfer of the Valley lines from Network Rail or not, Valley lines light rail plans or not, the seemingly impossible task of meeting the 2020 PRM deadline, the M4 relief road sucking up all of the Welsh Govt's transport infrastructure budget or not, etc and so on, have not helped.
Welsh Labour/Welsh Government have a deep seated cultural problem in that they want the Powers, they want more £ budget, they want to take the plaudits for success but don't want to accept any responsibility if things go wrong. Having worked for Welsh Government for 10.5 years your comments ring true.
A lot of the problem is WG have talked big and then when its come to crunch time made no commitment to fund £ given all the above.
The timetable change on the HOWL wasn't ATW's doing - the WAG wanted an extra service without any extra trains to run them.
So what happens if two more bidders drop out, leaving just one? They would be in a position to say " Here's the bill take it or leave it"
Or if nobody bids in the end?
Possibly it's simply that the potential rewards are seen as too low for the amount of risk and management attention required. Or that they think their relationship with the Welsh government is so bad that they have no chance of winning. There is no Direct Award on the table.Arriva pulling out is an huge surprise, particularly as they were reported as having part-funded the lease on the micro-fleet of 769s into the early 2020s and SARPA's latest newsletter had Abellio and Arriva as the only two bidders still in the running. From various comments earlier in this topic (and maybe other topics/fourms), I can think of three possible reasons for Arriva pulling out:
Possible reasons for a direct award could be a further delay to devolution of the franchising powers or the issue of Pacer replacement and TSI-PRM compliance for the class 153 and mark 3 fleets.
- They are expecting a direct award and therefore it isn't worth them sinking any more funds in bidding, since a new contest will follow the direct award
- The Welsh Government / Transport For Wales is asking for something that Arriva does not want to offer in their bid, because they consider it too high risk
- Similar to (2.), Arriva consider the partial vertical integration of the south Wales metro too high risk