Terry Williams
Member
- Joined
- 3 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 131
Try Groups.ioAre the TPE 802 diagrams posted anywhere, alternatively is there a simple summary like "they are supposed to work every one of the Liverpool Edinburghs"?
HTH
Try Groups.ioAre the TPE 802 diagrams posted anywhere, alternatively is there a simple summary like "they are supposed to work every one of the Liverpool Edinburghs"?
They are supposed to work all of the Liverpool Edinburgh services and three of the Manchester Airport to Newcastle diagrams. https://groups.io/g/Class-800-801-802 has more information.
Looks like members only. And seems to be reports, rather than plans. Maybe you just can't predict which circuits or trains won't be an 802 on any particular day...Try Groups.io
HTH
Looks like members only. And seems to be reports, rather than plans. Maybe you just can't predict which circuits or trains won't be an 802 on any particular day...
I suspect you do...: because that is how franchise bidding works. See Arriva Rail North's spectacularly undeliverable franchise bid and the fleet that was assumed...I will never understand why they opted to return back to and ordered trains based on a proven unworkable and unpractically short turnaround time, knowing already the short turnaround times were disastrous to service presentation, punctuality and reliability across the network and even affected catering provision.
Would this be due to there not being enough power to go around on that stretch at present?
In addition to JonathanH’s recent reply, this thread discusses the ECML power supply upgrade features and locations:Apologies if this has been asked before - I've seen quite a few TPE 802s on the stretch between Newcastle and Edinburgh now, but the majority of the time they seem to be operating on diesel power despite the presence of wires from York northwards.
Would this be due to there not being enough power to go around on that stretch at present? I vaguely remember reading about a new sub-station being planned near Berwick.
Actually fixed the issue? Actually, nah, that's madnessWe change over manually at designated station stops. So northbound we go electric at York and back on to diesel at Morpeth. Southbound we run on diesel from edinburgh to morpeth, electric morpeth to york then back on diesel until manchester Victoria pan goes back up
It's a little different on sundays, we are electric up to Man Vicc and between Durham and Morpeth only.
Basically since LNER switched from HSTs to Bi-mode the OHLE doesn't have enough power to sustain potentially 4 LNERs and 2 TPEs in that section between Chathill OHNS and Longniddry OHNS. The feeder at Marshall Meadows isn't strong enough and was designed to only ever support 2x electras + 1 freight which was all that was expected at electrification when far less trains were run (they arent supposed to be running 2x5car 80x sets north of Newcastle either...) quite what we would have done if e-voyagers were ever built is beyond me.....
Thanks for confirming changeover still happens during appropriate station calls. I was hedging my bets when I wrote “supposed to” because I was pretty sure it wasn’t happening, no-one had mentioned it in other threads.We change over manually at designated station stops. So northbound we go electric at York and back on to diesel at Morpeth. Southbound we run on diesel from edinburgh to morpeth, electric morpeth to york then back on diesel until manchester Victoria pan goes back up...
Caped09/03
5Q90/X90 0609 Heaton - Acton - Eastleigh
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00604/2020-03-09/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00605/2020-03-09/detailed
My understanding is that there is some concern about switching on the move when approaching unwired sections due to a lack of standardised signage to remind the Driver. There have been a number of incidents across the industry where Drivers have forgotten to change power, or in the context of an EMU, stopped to question the route, entered an unwired section and caused damage or delay, or both. Naturally, any TOC would be keen to avoid this, so I don’t think limiting the changeover to static locations at present is a bad thing. Eventually there are plans to install trackside balise which will tell the train to switchover automatically.
The cynic in me also says that given the number of power-changeover issues the TPE 802s have had whilst stationary, it’s best to keep it this way for a while - nobody wants Colton Junction blocked whilst the Driver phones Hitachi Maintenance.
It was a requirement of the design of these trains that could safely change power source on the move. Seems pretty scandalous that the industry continues to unnecessarily burn diesel when the wires are available and can support the service (also scandalous that power upgrades haven’t been completed, but that’s for a different thread). Seriously undermines calls for further electrification. Time the Hitachi and the operators got their act together.
My understanding is that there is some concern about switching on the move when approaching unwired sections due to a lack of standardised signage to remind the Driver. There have been a number of incidents across the industry where Drivers have forgotten to change power, or in the context of an EMU, stopped to question the route, entered an unwired section and caused damage or delay, or both. Naturally, any TOC would be keen to avoid this, so I don’t think limiting the changeover to static locations at present is a bad thing. Eventually there are plans to install trackside balise which will tell the train to switchover automatically.
The cynic in me also says that given the number of power-changeover issues the TPE 802s have had whilst stationary, it’s best to keep it this way for a while - nobody wants Colton Junction blocked whilst the Driver phones Hitachi Maintenance.
09/03
5Q90/X90 0609 Heaton - Acton - Eastleigh
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00604/2020-03-09/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00605/2020-03-09/detailed
I'd have thought that with the fragility of all TPE services at present the avoidance of one more potential risk is a very prudent strategy. Once stability is achieved the electric percentage can be increased.
I'd have thought that the significantly superior performance on electric would be very useful accelerating out of York toward Leeds (and Morpeth to Edinburgh), given the fragility of TPE services.
The acceleration out of York towards Leeds may be of less benefit than you think when the wires run out!
No. They change to diesel at Colton Junction having reached line speed. That’s the idea of bimodes being able to change on the move isn’t it?
No, we do not. As I have already pointed out, as has @tpjm mentioned a reason as to why, we do this stationary at York. It is TPE policy and clearly written in the drivers diagrams.
No, we do not. As I have already pointed out, as has @tpjm mentioned a reason as to why, we do this stationary at York. It is TPE policy and clearly written in the drivers diagrams.
Confirmed elsewhere that 802203 is on thisCaped - Now VSTP for 10/03
5Q90/X90 8022xx
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/99921/2020-03-10/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/99903/2020-03-10/detailed
There are also plenty of headspans (on curves) in the York area so probably sensible to do it while stopped in the station as lower risk.I think even if everyone who works in the industry could give him one of 100 different valid reasons why they aren’t doing the changeover at speed he’d still insist that was wrong.....
Yes - in OLE terms, the OLEMI (Mk3b) system used on the ECML through York has lower tension (11kN/11kN) than Series 1 (16.5kN/13kN) for contact and catenary wires respectively.There are also plenty of headspans (on curves) in the York area so probably sensible to do it while stopped in the station as lower risk.
The IET change overs at speed on the GW all have much higher wire tension and better registration.
The problem here is that you’ve written that as a statement of what they do, rather than including the word should...No. They [should] change to diesel at Colton Junction having reached line speed. That’s the idea of bimodes being able to change on the move isn’t it?