If my finances were as limited as you say yours were I don't think I'd have set foot on a train in the first place.
Did you ever explain why you were so tired in the first place i.e. why hadn't you slept the night before?
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Court Summons next month
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If my finances were as limited as you say yours were I don't think I'd have set foot on a train in the first place.
Did you ever explain why you were so tired in the first place i.e. why hadn't you slept the night before?
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He told me when he gave me these times that I would have to purchase the ticket back. That's why I began looking online to see about getting one. Then saw the prices...
The amount of times I've said this now... My naive decision, I did not think he would charge me for that, given that I coul have just gotten off at Cheltenham then got a ticket to Bristol!
But from what the guy said on the day, about me calling said number to pay it, and that I would receive a letter about what happens next (FROM XC). And then from calling XC on the day explaining everything that happened, to then being told from the man on XC phone that it was an UPFN... Surely that contradicts that?
What about once it has gone into court, would a settlement be able even then, without risk of a criminal record?
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I did not think about it, I figured Bristol was closer to Bath. Look, I realise that I'm digging myself a hole here from quoting myself asking for a ticket from Cheltenham to Bristol. I said it to you all on the forum like that as that was what I was thinking. Which I felt would have made it easier for you all to understand. If I had of said in the forum, "I asked for a ticket to Bristol", I would have gotten more questions like "where did you impose the ticket be purchased from" along those lines... Me quoting myself saying that avoids those questions
So very true. I'd resisted the temptation to post hypotheses in a disputes thread, but bb21 says it all. All humans screw up - I know I do - and if you put your hands up and plead stupidity, people will undoubtedly try to be helpful, and I bet the return trip to Sheffield could have been made without charge.
It's not even remotely logical, finding yourself 140 miles past your destination, to suddenly want to get an additional 40 miles further away. However, in the extreme situation that such a solution seems rational, the obvious first step would have been to make attempts to get a Sheffield to Bristol ticket - thus instantly negating any accusations of travelling for 140 miles for free or doughnutting.
No. You are completely missing the point. You had paid for Leeds to Sheffield, but had travelled from Leeds to Cheltenham. Did you think that CrossCountry didn't deserve to get paid for transporting you from Sheffield to Cheltenham because you were asleep and missed the scenery?
As I said above, that *might* mean that any fine is reduced, but it doesn't excuse you from your responsibility to have paid for the travel from Sheffield to Cheltenham on the day.
Once the case is called it is too late to arrange a settlement.
Of course you wouldn't... But that's why I wanted to go to Sheffield! To meet a friend and travel by car!
Yes, in my letters and to the inspector on the day when explaining my decisions and why I could not afford a ticket back.
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This is what I did, in my letter, I wrote saying exactly what you said there "i hold my hands up, it was a stupid decision, I will not make it again". But if the inspector on the day told me "you will need to purchase a ticket back to Sheffield" - what does that imply?
Surely that is what ive tried to do by calling XC as soon as I got off the train explaining my situation and the events of the day, what I had been given etc?
How is calling XC after you've been reported the same as asking for a Sheffield to Bristol ticket as your first step?
No that's not what I think, and I'm not missing the point that I paid for such a journey but actually travelled said journey. But is my daft mistake of falling asleep and ending up somewhere I did not want to be, deserving of paying it either? I didn't want to be there, I didn't want to take that journey - but I understand, in the eyes of the law intent is not what I think.
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Because I'm trying to reimburse them for the trip, by doing as told to do by the inspector. Had I been able to do what he'd said, I wouldn't be here now
To put it bluntly - tough. You should have stayed awake.
No. Had you (a) stayed awake; (b) got off at Cheltenham and returned to Sheffield; or (c) asked for a ticket that covered the journey you actually took, then you wouldn't be in this situation.
Stop trying to make it someone else's fault and deal with it like the adult that you claim to be.
Is that still a serious question?
I have a reason as to why I wasn't awake. Look, if I could go back and buy the ticket he proposed, or got off at Cheltenham and gone back to Sheffield I would!
I'm trying to deal with it! I have been for the last 6 months! On top of the important university work I need to be doing
DaleCooper
Established Member
You are clearly on a different planet. Did XC force you to go to Cheltenham against your wishes?
So by the sounds of it, Guilty is looking like the only outcome. I'm writing one final letter explaining everything again, and including my written witness statements. I'm also writing this "It is at this point that I thought Mr. Harper would have understood my decision given my circumstances, and only charged me for the fare of Cheltenham to Bristol. This was my mistake, and I assure you it is the most regrettable mistake I have ever made in my life. I understand the reason for CrossCountrys decision to prosecute based on the charge in question, and the loss they would have had from the journey I took. But I too am at loss for the journey which I unintentionally took, or will be. But court action will not benefit either of us. I have offered to pay the full fare due immediately after the incident and the days which followed, and have offered to pay the fare, even double, plus administrative costs and any costs which has been used for court thus far.
But what else will CrossCountry gain from this besides a customer that will never fall asleep on a train again which they have already gained from this so far. But what more can be gained? A customer who probably will be reluctant to travel on trains again through fear of this whole process, who is on the verge of a successful career as a teacher, and has a partner who lives in the U.S. all of which a criminal record would affect greatly, plus the amount of money which has already been offered by means of an out of court settlement.
All I want is to get this put behind me, to pay whatever it takes to whoever it must go to, without the risk of a criminal record. I guess what I am saying here is, basically, that this mistake of mine, would ruin my life. It really would. And all the things that I have done, the years of studies to get to this point would have been all for nothing. I beg of you, to put this forward to CrossCountry. The ball is in theirs or your court. The payment for this would be within band 2/3 correct? Play with it. As it stands, if I plead guilty, I will owe £237.80, or somewhere along those lines. But I will also receive a criminal record, which I most definitely cannot risk for my career, and relationship. Add on whatever costs you like to this within the band and I will pay it, immediately, in full. That is my pledge to you, along with the promise that this will never happen again. Other than what I have already said, I do not know what more I can say, but to request, beg even, for an alternative disposal of the offence. I am sorry, I really am, and I wish you could see this. I ask that you do settle the case out of court and that we can reach an agreeable fee, which is your choice I will pay whatever it is."
But what else will CrossCountry gain from this besides a customer that will never fall asleep on a train again which they have already gained from this so far. But what more can be gained? A customer who probably will be reluctant to travel on trains again through fear of this whole process, who is on the verge of a successful career as a teacher, and has a partner who lives in the U.S. all of which a criminal record would affect greatly, plus the amount of money which has already been offered by means of an out of court settlement.
All I want is to get this put behind me, to pay whatever it takes to whoever it must go to, without the risk of a criminal record. I guess what I am saying here is, basically, that this mistake of mine, would ruin my life. It really would. And all the things that I have done, the years of studies to get to this point would have been all for nothing. I beg of you, to put this forward to CrossCountry. The ball is in theirs or your court. The payment for this would be within band 2/3 correct? Play with it. As it stands, if I plead guilty, I will owe £237.80, or somewhere along those lines. But I will also receive a criminal record, which I most definitely cannot risk for my career, and relationship. Add on whatever costs you like to this within the band and I will pay it, immediately, in full. That is my pledge to you, along with the promise that this will never happen again. Other than what I have already said, I do not know what more I can say, but to request, beg even, for an alternative disposal of the offence. I am sorry, I really am, and I wish you could see this. I ask that you do settle the case out of court and that we can reach an agreeable fee, which is your choice I will pay whatever it is."
No, I'm sorry. But all you have done for the last three days is whine about why CrossCountry didn't write to you, and why won't they settle out of court. I've tried my best to help you but I give up as well.
I'm sorry you have come to this decision, and I completely agree with you. But its all I have - you have to understand this
bb21
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I think at this stage, one realistic option would be to actually ring the prosecutions department. I know we normally advise against doing this, as one can unintentionally say something incriminating, but if everything is as you said in this thread, I don't think there is much to lose by ringing them and trying to negotiate a settlement, possibly with the help of a solicitor.
So what, just go see a solicitor, have them look over everything I've sent and received, then try letting the solicitor negotiate something?
No it isnt. You even admitted in yoru first post that they wrote to you asking for your version of events then claim they didnt write to you.
They dont believe you and so are now prosecuting you - that is their decision to make and not yours.
Now I would suggest you plead guilty and live with the consequences of your actions and the impact that your actions will have. Thats called being a grown up.
If you so want to plead not guilty then I would suggest you get to see a specialist solicitor to assist you as it appears that you wont take any advice from people on here and are trying to blame someone else.
Your story is not believable im afraid.
Oh my goodness... I said in my first post that TIL wrote to me. What I've been saying for the passed three days is that the inspector said that CrossCountry would write to me. I'm sure what I have said comes across as unbelievable, and I know its not my decision on XC prosecuting me.
The advice people are giving me is to see a solicitor. I have taken that advice and I will do so.
Sorry, what I meant was that you haven't explained on here why you hadn't slept the night before (to allow members on here to understand whether it might be relevant).
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But you don't seem to want to share it.
Family reasons, or of what little I have left of it. I was away for the summer prior to the incident, when I got back and the night before I left for my journey, I was told that a family member of mine had passed a few months before hand, which I wasn't told about. This led to me staying awake, angrily, talking to my girlfriend about it all on skype. It became that late, sleeping would have been pointless as I would have probably not woken up (wish I did just sleep through my alarm or something and travelled on a different day).
I'm sorry for your loss. It may be considered a mitigating factor, but doesn't alter the fact of the offence.
Here is a good read which sums up pretty much what I have been trying to say (don't worry its just a short article).
http://www.govyou.co.uk/section-5-3...89-travelling-on-railway-without-paying-fare/
http://www.govyou.co.uk/section-5-3...89-travelling-on-railway-without-paying-fare/
Please dont ever read that again or think that site can give you correct advice. It cant and it doesnt.
And its far from a good article.
I know I said I was done trying to help you, but...
No. Just no. That is a poorly written opinion piece wrapped up in a cloak of officialdom by using 'gov' and 'you' in the URL.
It is wrong in many, many ways.
Yes, it does look to me too as though you are finding it difficult to separate out what is relevant in terms of the law from everything else, so I'd also suggest you consult a local solicitor. Even if this costs money, a professional at dealing with situations like this is much more likely to achieve a better outcome for you - you don't seem to have made much progress with your own phone calls and letters.
That is one of the worst, most misleading, and useless articles I have ever wasted two minutes reading.
Agreed! And 5.3 (a) has nothing to do with the OP's situation, which is captured by 5.3 (b).
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The only useful part there was the grammar lesson from Mr Everest! Concise, factual and accurate - all skills a teacher should be soaking up
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Llanigraham
On Moderation
Correction.
That is a rubbish article obviously written by someone who doesn't have a clue.
Follow it at your severe peril!!
Elwyn
Member
Based on what I have read so far, if you cant get this settled without a hearing, I strongly suggest that you dont represent yourself in court and dont go into the witness box to give evidence. If you come across in court the way you do here, youll be confusing, youll contradict yourself, the prosecutor will tear holes in your evidence and you wont impress the court as a credible or truthful witness. Youll probably be convicted and will get a much bigger fine, and bigger costs, than for a guilty plea.
Definitely instruct a solicitor and get him/her to speak on your behalf.
Definitely instruct a solicitor and get him/her to speak on your behalf.
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