December 2012 timetable changes

[jon0844]

Can FCC realistically manage these extra services with their fleet - or will they be working trains a lot harder and risking short formations when things go wrong?

I saw one example of a train service cut to be used to strengthen another service, but what about the others?

With all the point scoring by Virgin of late and the anti-First bashing, I do think that NR and First have done exceptionally well on the Great Northern route with more capacity and well planned, often quite subtle, tweaks and changes to the timetable.

I am sure most commuters don't appreciate it, but as you stand at Finsbury Park watching trains come and go northbound, which are fast, semi-fast and slow - you can start to imagine how they all slot together and don't catch up on, or hold up, other services on limited capacity.

It might not be perfect and may struggle to cope during disruption, but I just smirk when I imagine how Virgin might have run something like the Thameslink/GN franchise.

 

[Fred26]

I don't know how exactly FCC are juggling their units, I just hope it works out okay. Worst case scenario is that the services that are being cut or shortened are needed more than the strengthened services, resulting in scrapping the timetable. Similar to what c2c did a few years ago when they upset people with their timetable.

Mildly interesting note: FCC were looking into two options for morning twelve car trains. The other option included the first KGX-PBO service being a 12-car! Presumably a positing move.

 

[jamieintercity]

when does the scotrail timetable get released/published? Its about 5 weeks til the new timetable get commenced?

 

[philjo]

I read either in Rail or MR that FCC had managed to adjust maintenance times so that 1 extra unit was available for use during the peak period.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

East Midlands Trains's and Southeastern's new timetables are available on their respective websites.

 

[greatkingrat]

The full NRTT is due to be published on the Network Rail site on Friday.

 

[merlodlliw]

The full NRTT is due to be published on the Network Rail site on Friday.

Alas it will be full of errors. ATW with a month to go have still not completed their timetable.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

In Scotland, Dumbarton Central will now be a call on the Fort William Sleeper in both directions.

when does the scotrail timetable get released/published? Its about 5 weeks til the new timetable get commenced?

See this:

http://admin.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/documents/FSR__INSIGHT_NOV-DEC_2012.pdf

You can download your own timetable available from 6 November at scotrail.co.uk/timetableroutes or pick up a copy from mainline stations.

Note however they aren't uploaded yet.

 

[michael769]

New Scotrail timetables are up:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/new-timetables

 

[Class377/5]

I read either in Rail or MR that FCC had managed to adjust maintenance times so that 1 extra unit was available for use during the peak period.

They did that for Thameslink 12 cars. Not seen the new diagrams so not sure if they have done that.

Can FCC realistically manage these extra services with their fleet - or will they be working trains a lot harder and risking short formations when things go wrong?

I saw one example of a train service cut to be used to strengthen another service, but what about the others?

With all the point scoring by Virgin of late and the anti-First bashing, I do think that NR and First have done exceptionally well on the Great Northern route with more capacity and well planned, often quite subtle, tweaks and changes to the timetable.

I am sure most commuters don't appreciate it, but as you stand at Finsbury Park watching trains come and go northbound, which are fast, semi-fast and slow - you can start to imagine how they all slot together and don't catch up on, or hold up, other services on limited capacity.

It might not be perfect and may struggle to cope during disruption, but I just smirk when I imagine how Virgin might have run something like the Thameslink/GN franchise.

I don't know how exactly FCC are juggling their units, I just hope it works out okay. Worst case scenario is that the services that are being cut or shortened are needed more than the strengthened services, resulting in scrapping the timetable. Similar to what c2c did a few years ago when they upset people with their timetable.

Mildly interesting note: FCC were looking into two options for morning twelve car trains. The other option included the first KGX-PBO service being a 12-car! Presumably a positing move.

A lot of it is moving stock around from stuff I've seen. How this is going to play with the 365's being sent for refurbishment works I'm not sure. Bottom line is there's extra seats so that's good for the passenger. Next increase will be from the new fleet.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Greater Anglia and South West Trains's are now up too - there are a lot of minor retimings along the Woking-Waterloo corridor in the latter's, who helpfully produce this PDF of changes. Oh how nice they would be to have for other operators too!

 

[tbtc]

Greater Anglia and South West Trains's are now up too - there are a lot of minor retimings along the Woking-Waterloo corridor in the latter's, who helpfully produce this PDF of changes. Oh how nice they would be to have for other operators too!

Totally agreed - why do some TOCs assume that they can publish a fifty page timetable that doesn't have any space on it to explain what has changed since last time?

TOCs are so good at telling people about some things (like advertising bargain tickets, the long repeated announcements on board) but seem to ignore the critical need to tell their regular "customers" what is different... you're just expected to read the long timetable to spot that your regular service now leaves five minutes earlier (or whatever)

/rant

 

[Goatboy]

Ouch, just been looking at the FGW timetables and it seems like Birmingham to Plymouth/Penzance is an absolute nightmare throughout January, February and March - buses replace trains between Bromsgrove and Gloucester until 6th Feb and then a week later buses replace trains between Newton Abbot and Plymouth!

I can't remember the last time I travelled that route on a Sunday - I do it monthly - without some sort of diversion/bus/engineering works

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Totally agreed - why do some TOCs assume that they can publish a fifty page timetable that doesn't have any space on it to explain what has changed since last time?

TOCs are so good at telling people about some things (like advertising bargain tickets, the long repeated announcements on board) but seem to ignore the critical need to tell their regular "customers" what is different... you're just expected to read the long timetable to spot that your regular service now leaves five minutes earlier (or whatever)

/rant

Absolutely - I feel the same when I have to trek through page after page of how wonderful smartphone apps are for timetables in order to find the PDFs on websites, EMT were bad for this and XC still are!

I think Southern, Greater Anglia (I'm not 100% sure there), Southeastern, SWT and FGW all produce posters on stations detailing all changes; and EC and ScotRail all dedicate a few prominent lines in the timetable's info pages to changes. On the other hand however Northern, TPE, Virgin and ATW say nothing at all in my experience, the only way I usually find out is reading timetable reviews in railway magazines! The NRT usually includes a few lines per TOC in each edition, but that's surely beyond the research of most of the general public!

(TOCs I haven't mentioned in the above are the ones which I can't remember the policy for.)

 

[radamfi]

Greater Anglia and South West Trains's are now up too - there are a lot of minor retimings along the Woking-Waterloo corridor in the latter's, who helpfully produce this PDF of changes.

Running the first train 30 minutes later into Waterloo is pretty major, meaning that it is no longer possible to make early connections out of major London termini oor make early flights. That is quite appalling for the UK's busiest commuter route, considering that less busy routes get earlier trains and overnight services.

 

[tbtc]

Running the first train 30 minutes later into Waterloo is pretty major, meaning that it is no longer possible to make early connections out of major London termini oor make early flights. That is quite appalling for the UK's busiest commuter route, considering that less busy routes get earlier trains and overnight services.

Is the 04:00 service really that busy a train?

SWT's policy of delaying this by half an hour but extending the latest departures from Waterloo on some services seems to reflect the travel patterns of people these days (considering engineering etc means no 24 hour operation)

 

[radamfi]

Is the 04:00 service really that busy a train?

SWT's policy of delaying this by half an hour but extending the latest departures from Waterloo on some services seems to reflect the travel patterns of people these days (considering engineering etc means no 24 hour operation)

My friend says the 0400 is pretty busy.

They seem to manage a 24 hour service or near 24 hour service to Three Bridges and Bedford. Even Peterborough has a train to Kings Cross at 0325.

 

[greatkingrat]

Although it is leaving Guildford 30 minutes later, it will only be 20 minutes later into Waterloo as it will be going direct rather than via Chertsey.

 

[Pumbaa]

My friend says the 0400 is pretty busy.

They seem to manage a 24 hour service or near 24 hour service to Three Bridges and Bedford. Even Peterborough has a train to Kings Cross at 0325.

The move is permanent - but there is an extra Friday early morning train? This allows better engineering possession times on the mainline.

 

[jon0844]

FCC usually put up posters with the key changes, and the post on here seems very detailed.

FCC also runs a couple of very early trains, one of which I believe was a staff only train originally. It then became open to the public and I've caught it twice for early flights and it's been pretty well loaded. Quite a few people with me at Hatfield, shift workers and the like I expect.

It could be busier still as whenever I've told people there's a train that early, nobody seems to believe me! As such, I am sure many people wouldn't consider getting a train at 0420 (or thereabouts) to King's Cross, arriving in time for the start of the tube and at Heathrow around 0600 (or indeed Gatwick at about the same time).

 

[radamfi]

The move is permanent - but there is an extra Friday early morning train? This allows better engineering possession times on the mainline.

What extra Friday early morning train? It still looks like the first train is 0430 on Friday 14 December.

How do they manage to run 24 hour services to/from Three Bridges/Bedford?

Although it is leaving Guildford 30 minutes later, it will only be 20 minutes later into Waterloo as it will be going direct rather than via Chertsey.

The 0400 currently arrives at Waterloo at 0453. The 0430 will arrive at 0518.

 

[embers25]

What extra Friday early morning train? It still looks like the first train is 0430 on Friday 14 December.

How do they manage to run 24 hour services to/from Three Bridges/Bedford?



The 0400 currently arrives at Waterloo at 0453. The 0430 will arrive at 0518.

Whilst I applaud the one late Surbiton service being extended to Woking and thereby filling a gap this 0400 service change is VERY inconvenient for onward connections including to Gatwick where it now has been ludicrously scheduled to arrive at the same time the Gatwick train leaves. It also now has no connection to Victoria and doesn't stop at Vauxhall so you can't even connect there to the tube. By all means retime but not this late so it misses all connections...and as has been said how come the Brighton mainline can remain open 24 hours and not the Woking one...its a joke and VERY annoying and typical poor SWT planning.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Although it is leaving Guildford 30 minutes later, it will only be 20 minutes later into Waterloo as it will be going direct rather than via Chertsey.

It only goes via Chertsey during odd engineering days normal route is via and stopping at Surbiton

 

[SprinterMan]

The full NRTT is due to be published on the Network Rail site on Friday.

I can't seem to find it, has it not been uploaded yet?

Adam

 

[gswindale]

how come the Brighton mainline can remain open 24 hours and not the Woking one...its a joke and VERY annoying and typical poor SWT planning.

Do we know what the scope of the engineering works are? That would no doubt have an impact on the ability if NR to keep the lines open?

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know what the scope of the engineering works are? That would no doubt have an impact on the ability if NR to keep the lines open?

Seems to be to give them more weekday/overnight access for normal routine 'engineering works' - it's a trade off allowing for the so called 7 day railway policy of not closing so often or for so long on weekends.

So there is no quick answer to what the particular engineering works are - it could just be patrolling and inspections...

 

[tbtc]

Seems to be to give them more weekday/overnight access for normal routine 'engineering works' - it's a trade off allowing for the so called 7 day railway policy of not closing so often or for so long on weekends.

We have enough threads from people complaining that a certain line will effectively be shut (or "bussed") every Sunday for a month or two - the alternative is to tinker with the 04:00 services to allow Network Rail to do their thing overnight. Can't win them all I guess.

 

[steamybrian]

It would appear from the reader who travels from Guildford departing at 0400 changing at Clapham Jn arr 0443 departing 0508 arriving Gatwick Airport at 0546 would like to consider travelling via the North Downs line where there is a DIRECT train from Guildford departing 0510 and arriving Gatwick Airport at 0554 just 8 minutes later.

 

[radamfi]

It would appear from the reader who travels from Guildford departing at 0400 changing at Clapham Jn arr 0443 departing 0508 arriving Gatwick Airport at 0546 would like to consider travelling via the North Downs line where there is a DIRECT train from Guildford departing 0510 and arriving Gatwick Airport at 0554 just 8 minutes later.

That is no use for passengers from Woking, who won't be able to arrive at Gatwick until 0619 from 10 December.

 

[ushawk]

Is there REALLY that big a flow from Woking to Gatwick at 4AM in the morning anyway ?

I can understand maybe on the Waterloo corridor, but it just comes across as trying to pick holes in a change which seems fairly sensible.

Oh and the Brighton Mainline can run a near 24 hour service as it "splits" at Sloats Nest and Earlswood so trains can run via each one of those lines, whilst work takes place on the other line, a bit similar to the ECML which has the line via Hertford North.

 

[tbtc]

It would appear from the reader who travels from Guildford departing at 0400 changing at Clapham Jn arr 0443 departing 0508 arriving Gatwick Airport at 0546 would like to consider travelling via the North Downs line where there is a DIRECT train from Guildford departing 0510 and arriving Gatwick Airport at 0554 just 8 minutes later.

That is no use for passengers from Woking, who won't be able to arrive at Gatwick until 0619 from 10 December.

Is there REALLY that big a flow from Woking to Gatwick at 4AM in the morning anyway ?

I can understand maybe on the Waterloo corridor, but it just comes across as trying to pick holes in a change which seems fairly sensible

Especially given the long diversion from Woking into London to change at Clapham Junction and back out of London towards Gatwick, compared to going a couple of junctions round the M25 at that time of day - not exactly a major market.