..It is sad that you appear to be unable to accept that you entered into an agreement with FGW from which you gained advantage by the issue of a free replacement.
I have no idea what you mean. I have paid FGW a considerable amount of money to use a service for twelve months. Maybe what is sad is that i didn't read the small print and expected this service to be honoured.
They HAVE honoured their agreement with you absolutely as I read the Ts&Cs. You agreed to them when you bought the tickets and I am sure the consequences of a second loss were adequately explained to you when the replacement was issued.
Your whole attitude in this has been to victimise yourself and present FGW as the agressor.
That has not been my point at all. All i have stated is that i have been refused on ground that are vague (2 replacements in a 12 month period (from when? It doesn't state calendar yrs etc)), and 'expected' fraudulent use (your point Old Timer - how to prove on either side)
THere is no vagueness about it. I read the Ts&Cs and very quickly indeed understood the fact that two replacements would not be made within a 12 month period of the issue of the first repalcement. The first replacement is obvious only valid from the date it is issued and thus the 12 months period runs from that date.
Within the arrangements currently in hand for checking tickets it is now very difficult if not almost impossible to detect the use of stolen season tickets without a detailed inspection of the ticket. That takes time at a barrier as I stated, and therefore the refusal of passengers to accept such delays means that the replacement of lost tickets has to be balanced against the always present risk of fraud. Note that most other travel providers operating similarly do not allow replacements.
We only have your side of the story. There is clearly a reason why FGW are refusing to issue a replacement and I presume that it is on the basis that you have LOST a second season ticket within 12 months. That being the case as far as I remember reading the Conditions, you are bound by these.
I didn't realise i was standing trial here. To be fair to everyone that buys a season ticket - the conditions of carriage is a slightly hidden rule. Appreciate that this is my fault for not reading the small print.
Well thank you for at least admitting that you did not read them. Unfortunately as with all thing financial and contractual people fail to check the small print unfortunately as the saying goes, the devil is in the detail. I am certain that there is a notice displayed in the booking office window at every station - relating to the Ts&Cs but I would have to check.
...If as you state your first ticket was stolen, then your failure to report this to the Police bearing in mind that fact that a valuable commodity, a season ticket was stolen gives rise to a whole series of questions. It is not for you to decide what the Police will and will not investigate neither is it for you to judge whether or not the miscreant will be detected. I think most reasonable people would be ringing the Police to report the loss. The fact that you did not do so - but only claimed theft now you want a second free replacement - would raise most people's eyebrows.
If you read the threads then some people would and some people wouldn't. I got held up at knife point in my house and the police weren't that helpful so maybe i have some issue with their effectiveness.
OK maybe so but you see that failure to report it as stolen means that (my reading of the Ts&Cs being correct, that you now fall within the lost/lost rather than the stolen/lost category. Unfortunately this is again within the Ts&Cs.
Have you appealed against the decision ?
Yes - read the threads
Fine thank you, but as threads get longer it is not always possible to go back and read the complete thread everytime, hence the question for clarity. I presume you appeal is based upon the stolen/lost scenario.
May I suggest that you get some written statements from people who were aware of that fact, and if necessary get these "sworn". As I said earlier I think right now that FGW are dealing with you on a lost/lost basis and their response is quite reasonable given that as far as they are concerned the first ticket was lost not stolen, and only became stolen in their eyes when you wanted a second lost/lost replacement. Your task now is to persuade them that the original was stolen (not lost) and hope that they accept your lack of faith in the Police, hence why I suggest getting some verification to support your case.
It is unlikely that they will go to a second appeal so it may be worth your while writing again and explaining that you are arranging to provide evidence that your first was stolen. It may help. I suggest DaveNewcastle would be a good person to run this by first though.
..As you seem to be so keen to be the victim here, why not do as I suggest and seek legal advice and challenge FGW in the Courts. Then let us see what THEY decide.
Again - not trying to 'play' a victim. Just asking for advice, not abuse.
I am sorry if that is how it came across. If you are upset by that comment then I unreservedly apologise and withdraw it. My point was not meant to be abusive but simply to try to point out that by virtue of a series of circumstances you find yourself disadvantaged but the fault does not lie with FGW who are (or so it appears) complying with the Ts&Cs of the ticket.
Finally I find your last sentence both patronising and offensive. ANY decision will be made against what the conditions permit. You have from post 1 declared yourself a victim and have continually stated that you expect FGW to abide by the agreement entered into, yet now that it does not suit you, you want to be released from it.
I am sorry Old Timer but from the start of this you have not been particularly pleasant. Maybe it's an email thing and i have read your posts incorrectly but they have been fairly hostile and totally patronising. I apologise if i have offended you.
Again I am sorry if you have taken offence but the internet is not always an easy place to demonstrate the emphasis in the same way you can verbally.
My position without being abusive or indeed patronising is that you have fallen foul of a situation that is covered in the Ts&Cs of the ticket issue. Now bad things happen and sometimes all one can do is to accept the inevitable and move on. The clear perception that I and pretty much all the other Railway staff have, is that because you have not read the Ts&Cs you now think that FGW is acting unreasonably. All FGW have done is to meet their obligations. Most people think it fair and reasonable that there is a free replacement in any year. I do not consider you as other than honest but can you not see that there are many who are not and that the fraudulent use of lost/duplicate season tickets is an ever present problem. At one stage we had it under control with barriers, without barriers it is very difficult to achieve this now, but passengers do not want to be delayed and in that case there has to be a balance. If the Railway cannot achieve the level of control it needs because passengers do not want to co-operate then the passengers have to accept that there have to be other forms of protecting revenue against those who would seek to approve it.
Without being cynical, experience has proven to staff involved in revenue protection that there are enough people on the railway system who travel with intent to deliberately avoid, or who would ordinarily buy tickets, but who will use an opportunity to avoid payment if this presents itself. In other words, opportunist fare evaders.
In your words - irrelevant.
I would (and can) insure the Jewellery. The cash example has already been given and I wouldn't carry that around with me. The fact is that I now know that rail cards are perceived as cash - i didn't before. If this is SUCH a massive problem then isn't it down to the railways to prove intent rather than assuming it?
I think here you misunderstand simply because you are not comparing the circumstances logically.
Comparisons of a season ticket with cash are not really of much value. Cash can be used easily and proving ownership of lost money is almost impossible. A season ticket is issued to a named individual and is supported by a photo ID card. This should in theory make it more difficult to use fradulently. Unfortunately as I have said above to really prove that the season ticket is truly the property of the holder would require a proper examination, the sort which the ordinary passenger objects to, for a variety of reasons. A guard checking tickets is primarily doing a date check on a busy train, sometimes a number disparity will be picked up, sometimes it wont be. That unfortunately is life and the humna condition.
As I see it, in your situation FGW have been presented with facts that suggest you want a second lost ticket replacement within the 12 months period, but that only upon refusal you now claim that the original was stolen. This as I understand it was not declared as stolen when the first repalcement was issued, and thus as they see it, you are now trying to change the reason for the first replacement. Without any proof that your first was stolen, and on the basis that you never told them before, you can hardly blame them for thinking that you may be trying to obtain a second when it is not justified.
YOUR task is to somehow persuade them that you wrong declared the original lost when in fact it had been stolen. I have suggested a potential way forward of proving that retrospectively but I suggest that FGW might have been more sympathetic has the original been declared stolen rather than lost.
Finally I do have sympathy with your position but I disagree with the way you put forward your justification that you are being treated unfairly. Unfortunately when any Railway staff put forward the reasons why, there are immediate accusations of them being "jobsworths/uncaring/uncustomer friendly, etc, etc" This appears to be a unique British thing but in order to move forward you need to understand what your true position is.
Any advice or suggestion that you have a strong case would I feel be misleading. It is unfortunate that a combination of circumstances have come together for you, but in some ways I cannot but feel you are to a degree the author of your own misfortune.