If you lost your passport, I am pretty sure you will pay the full price for a new one!
That also has a photo and is generally checked quite thoroughly.
A bad comparison perhaps?
Electronic ticketing proposals are being discussed right now. These could bring great advantages, but if poorly devised and implemented, could make life even worse for passengers and for staff.Here we're talking about having to keep in one's wallet or purse a small, badly printed piece of card (mine's now almost unreadable with 3 months to run) with a replacement cost the same as a small car. At least in Victorian times season tickets were substantial affairs reflecting their value!
As I proposed earlier, ticketing carries complex and well-established procedures which are going to be a great challenge to improve on. If the commentators on this forum have the accumulated knowledge, imagination and experience that it has boasted on other matters, can we, collectively, propose a better system for the future than ATOC, its members and its governmental client are likely to introduce?
Good analysis. The antiquity of the legal framework needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. Too many aspects of the company/customer interface have been allowed to grow organically without proper analysis....
To my mind, the most worrying of these is (b) as it often renders the unfortunate or forgetfull passenger indistiguishable from the determined fare evader. One of the historic inheritances under (d) is the unusual status of the Ticket, it is not quite a receipt, not quite a 'permit to travel' but more of a token representing quite a complex value and carring permissions which can vary over time and place and can be subject to conditions which themselves may change. ....
So why is a TOC finding it so difficult to issue the replacement? No one is suggesting she should be allowed to travel simply by saying "I had a ticket but lost it". But the TOC know she had bought it; there is no evidence that she is using the ticket fraudulently, or even that the ticket is being used. I suggest they are simply hiding behind the "rules is rules" answer, yet again :roll::roll:Which requires the passenger to provide the ticket thta has been issued. :roll:
Equally nonsense. If you've lost the ticket and travel you must be travelling without it.I'm not trying to travel without a ticket, which is another thing entirely.
This is going nowhere is it?
Missburty, what stage are you at with regards to an appeal?
If you had bothered to read the whole, thread you would understand that FGW place a restriction on the issue of two free replacements for "lost" season tickets in the 12 month period after the date of issue of the first....So why is a TOC finding it so difficult to issue the replacement? No one is suggesting she should be allowed to travel simply by saying "I had a ticket but lost it". But the TOC know she had bought it; there is no evidence that she is using the ticket fraudulently, or even that the ticket is being used. I suggest they are simply hiding behind the "rules is rules" answer, yet again :roll::roll:
Old (May I call you Old, as it has the same patronising tone you seem to adopt in your one-eyed pronouncements?), if you had bothered to read the thread, you would have grasped that many contributors do think it is unreasonable, and have given many cogent reasons. Just denying it - again - does not aid the discussion. In fact, it is not discussion at allIf you had bothered to read the whole, thread you would understand that FGW place a restriction on the issue of two free replacements for "lost" season tickets in the 12 month period after the date of issue of the first.
This is not at all unreasonable.
Because those Ts&Cs are archaic, and, in many areas, have not changed in any way in response to legislation in the field of consumer protection since they were introduced. The world has moved on since the old times. As I understand it, you have in your time been involved in infrastructure. Over the decades best practice and regulations have changed in that field, both in response to legislation and a changing public attitude towards safety (inter alia). I presume you have yourself adopted these changes Why can you not accept that change might be required in the company/customer interface?........
Why is it that people want the Railway to absolutely honour its half of the Ts&Cs yet want to opt out of their part of the agreement when it no longer suits ?....
A legal one might possibly arise from unfair conditions (can be debated); morally, I would disagree with you..... I don't think anyone is arguing that MissBurty has a legal leg to stand on, or even a moral one really
Well put!....
Again, whether there should be sea change away from 'paying for a ticket' towards 'paying for a service' is the other argument
If you had bothered to read the whole, thread you would understand that FGW place a restriction on the issue of two free replacements for "lost" season tickets in the 12 month period after the date of issue of the first.
She THEN decided to report the original as stolen not lost. Obviously FGW see this as a means of circumventing the rules. FGW have simply complied with the Ts&Cs that she signed up to, she now wants to be out of that agreement and wants a second replacement in circumstances that she agreed would not be replaceable unless FGW accept her original ticket as stolen.
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I know the police all too easily take little interest in certain crimes, but it would be particularly unfair to expect them to investigate a crime that happened many months ago.
If FGW does change its mind, I presume you are going to seek some sort of insurance on the ticket going forward? Yes, it means an additional cost that will impact on the saving you made with an annual ticket, but you don't really have a lot of choice!
If you lost your passport, I am pretty sure you will pay the full price for a new one!
That also has a photo and is generally checked quite thoroughly.
A bad comparison perhaps?
Again, not a good comparison with a rail ticket. The passport agency charge is meant to cover the admin costs of producing the document, which are pretty high. You aren't paying for the right to travel.The passport agency charge you full price for a replacement
I asked the police advise in this matter and was told that you cannot retrospectively report something as stolen.
I love it! Yes, the police will only accept reports of theft in advance, before the item has been stolen LOL! You must have been speaking to Chief Wiggum from the Simpsons!
I know the police all too easily take little interest in certain crimes, but it would be particularly unfair to expect them to investigate a crime that happened many months ago.
If FGW does change its mind, I presume you are going to seek some sort of insurance on the ticket going forward? Yes, it means an additional cost that will impact on the saving you made with an annual ticket, but you don't really have a lot of choice!
I've just had a wicked little thought (Moi?). IIRC, the ticket remains the property of the TOC (which tends to support those who assert that it represents a right to travel, so reissuing should not be a problem). Should it not, therefore, be the TOC that insures it, or takes the hit if it is lost? If I lend my phone to a friend who is then mugged, I wouldn't expect them to buy me a new phone!If the police ever found the ticket, they might at least notify the owner or TOC.....
If I lend my phone to a friend who is then mugged, I wouldn't expect them to buy me a new phone!
.... I suppose a determined fraudster could forge a photo card to go with the ticket - but then they may as well go the whole hog and forge the ticket as well! And if it's never checked, then there's no chance of being caught doing so.
The season ticket was in a coat that was stolen. If it had been reported, the police could see if it had anything in common with other thefts, e.g. the location. They then may well check CCTV if they have found a pattern of thefts in this place. They could then identify a suspect. This person may be known to them.You seriously think that the police would investigate the theft of a season ticket? A crime number is all you would get.