Guard operation of doors

[strange6]

Is there a general rule about the guard not leaving the door controls (once the doors have been closed) until the train has fully left the platform?

 

[northernrail]

Ive noticed, and wonderd the same thing, i guess it is incase there is a problem while still in the Platform

 

[francisoldfield]

the rule book used to say that you had to stay at the local door and watch the train out of the platform, however, this appears to have changed now that most local doors don't have a window to look out of and as a result it is mostly redundant.

however, talking from Southern, there personal rules say that we should stay by the door as best as possible.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Correct, I am still in training but we had a whole day of sitting on a Desiro in Clapham yard yesterday practising door operations and it was pointed out that the rule book did indeed recently change to reflect the fact that as slam doors are almost entirely gone from the network there is no longer a requirement to monitor the platform as you depart.

 

[Ferret]

Correct, I am still in training but we had a whole day of sitting on a Desiro in Clapham yard yesterday practising door operations and it was pointed out that the rule book did indeed recently change to reflect the fact that as slam doors are almost entirely gone from the network there is no longer a requirement to monitor the platform as you depart.

However, many TOCs (including the one I work for) still require you to remain by the door until the train is clear of the platform. Should you fail to do it in an assessment, it's fair to see this would be picked up on....

 

[strange6]

Correct, I am still in training but we had a whole day of sitting on a Desiro in Clapham yard yesterday practising door operations and it was pointed out that the rule book did indeed recently change to reflect the fact that as slam doors are almost entirely gone from the network there is no longer a requirement to monitor the platform as you depart.

Oh right. I just wondered because a lot of the Northern chaps still wait until their end of the train has left the platform and they keep their fingers on the buttons until it does. Perhaps Northern insist on this in case they get any emergencies of any kind

 

[175001]

Yep it's a critical duty on our door procedure. Caught leaving your door before you reach the end, and you will have a stern talking to

 

[GB]

While slam door stock has been withdrawn there are still incidents of people either being caught in the door or falling between the platform and the train so I can see why some TOCs still adhere to the old rule.

 

[strange6]

Yep it's a critical duty on our door procedure. Caught leaving your door before you reach the end, and you will have a stern talking to

Typical professionlism of Northern guards as usual
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

While slam door stock has been withdrawn there are still incidents of people either being caught in the door or falling between the platform and the train so I can see why some TOCs still adhere to the old rule.

Too true. you wouldn't believe at how many people I have seen just make the doors closing so I can imagine this sort of a thing happening relatively frequently (or at least the risk of it happening is quite high and hence the regulation)

 

[Fincra5]

Well we are supposed to see the train out of the platform. Depeneds what train you are on, on a 442 we can stick our heads out of the drop down window in the MLC. Ofc this isn't possible with 377s or 313s.

 

[driver9000]

The requirement for the Guard to remain at the door while the train clears the platform was removed from the Rulebook around 12 months ago. Northern opted to keep the rule in force through their own working instructions.

 

[185]

Northern retained it as a company rule. Transpennine removed it, but the RMT urged members to ignore them, and stick with the old rule, for the safety of passengers.

 

[9K43]

Correct, I am still in training but we had a whole day of sitting on a Desiro in Clapham yard yesterday practising door operations and it was pointed out that the rule book did indeed recently change to reflect the fact that as slam doors are almost entirely gone from the network there is no longer a requirement to monitor the platform as you depart.

This will be ok till you drag a passenger down the platform, then the fun will start of who is to blame.

 

[TomJ93]

If I was in the situation of the door closing on me, i'd just push it out of the way, i've held 390 doors open a few times for people trying to get off.

 

[GB]

You shouldn't nor should you need to physically hold open power operated doors.

 

[Matt Taylor]

This will be ok till you drag a passenger down the platform, then the fun will start of who is to blame.

You can only see other doors if you lean out of the droplight in the cab on a Desiro and we are not supposed to be working the train from the cab unless selective door operation is required. If someone is being dragged by the doors (however unlikely that is) I will not see them most of the time.

Provided I have visually checked the doors before closing the local door and the driver has got interlock I don't see how I can be put at fault. If we could prevent passengers joining while the hustle alarms are sounding I believe that such incidents would not happen.

 

[Anvil1984]

I am going to get shouted down by my Northern colleagues on here but sometimes its absolutely pointless standing by the doors until we leave the station. I agree by the priniciple but the 158s in particular are awful as you can't see through the windows due to the smoking sticker on the door (Northerns answer is look out of the other window). On the pacers and the other 15x's the view is decent, the 150/1s for their faults have a perfect view (the windows are always clean so long as you drop them down, its like actually sticking your head outside) .Being at a certain depot we view electric trains as witchcraft so can't comment on the rest.

The point is, if you can't see the platform, theres no point standing there but if you can well its very good practice

 

[BestWestern]

FGW also retains this requirement. Admittedly your field of view isn't brilliant through the door windows on most stock, but I can see their point. It makes more sense at dispatched stations where the dispatcher is able to give you the stop signal as you run out of the platform if need be. Although it's not in the rulebook FGW's competence bods take it pretty seriously and people have been put on training plans etc for not doing it. For those who might not know, the idea of keeping your door panel 'keyed in' is so that you can give the driver the emergency stop buzzer code - one long buzz - and in theory he/she will stop. Although most Guards would probably yank the nearest Pass-comm pretty quickly too!

 

[strange6]

FGW also retains this requirement. Admittedly your field of view isn't brilliant through the door windows on most stock, but I can see their point. It makes more sense at dispatched stations where the dispatcher is able to give you the stop signal as you run out of the platform if need be. Although it's not in the rulebook FGW's competence bods take it pretty seriously and people have been put on training plans etc for not doing it. For those who might not know, the idea of keeping your door panel 'keyed in' is so that you can give the driver the emergency stop buzzer code - one long buzz - and in theory he/she will stop. Although most Guards would probably yank the nearest Pass-comm pretty quickly too!

Jeez, there is so much variance on the railways. I thought this was a straightforward question but apparantly not!

 

[Aictos]

You shouldn't nor should you need to physically hold open power operated doors.

Too right, they're dangerous and shouldn't be trifled with - Huntingdon anyone?

 

[Flamingo]

I can't find the link, but wasn't a guard in court last year, as some drunk fell under his train leaving the platform, and he wasn't at the door? I seem to recall he was jailed over it.

To back up BestWestern, if a competence manager in FGW sees you leaving the door / taking your head in from the window before the end of the train has left the platform, then it would be an interview without coffee, at the least.

And on a snowy / rainy day, it's no fun, let me tell you!

 

[ainsworth74]

Huntingdon anyone?

That's what I was thinking...

 

[Urban Gateline]

You shouldn't nor should you need to physically hold open power operated doors.

Too right, but Guards seem powerless if someone does hold the doors open. One time when I was on a class 455 (SWT), some stupid teenagers held the doors open in the last carriage, you could hear them shouting out of the carriage, selfish behaviour, but the Guard just kept trying to close the doors again and again and the train left a minute late from London Waterloo because of it!

The guard did have a go at them over the PAS though, saying quite rightly how selfish they are and to not do it again, there were also several auto announcements saying not to put feet on the seats!

 

[TomJ93]

A group of about 5 of us were leaving the train (people hadn't even boarded yet) and the whistle blew and the doors began closing, I rather get a ear full for holding hte door open etc than have a guard charge 5 of us Coventry to Watford Junction fares!

 

[driverchris52]

FGW also retains this requirement. Admittedly your field of view isn't brilliant through the door windows on most stock, but I can see their point. It makes more sense at dispatched stations where the dispatcher is able to give you the stop signal as you run out of the platform if need be. Although it's not in the rulebook FGW's competence bods take it pretty seriously and people have been put on training plans etc for not doing it. For those who might not know, the idea of keeping your door panel 'keyed in' is so that you can give the driver the emergency stop buzzer code - one long buzz - and in theory he/she will stop. Although most Guards would probably yank the nearest Pass-comm pretty quickly too!

'in theory he/she will stop' !! of course the driver will stop. One buzz or bell is part of the bell/buzzer code and means only one thing...STOP.

 

[Mojo]

You shouldn't nor should you need to physically hold open power operated doors.

What if the door is closing on you as you are getting on or off?

 

[BestWestern]

'in theory he/she will stop' !! of course the driver will stop. One buzz or bell is part of the bell/buzzer code and means only one thing...STOP.

Unless the driver assumes you have somehow knackered the DKS or some such wonder and is a tad hesitant to put the emergency in. Hence the instruction to continuously sound the buzzer 'until you feel the train brakes apply'... If that doesn't happen pretty much instantly and I have someone merrily dicing with death then it'll be the nearest Pass-comm just to be sure!

To answer the above post, if the door is closing - or indeed if the alarm is sounding, which will already be happening before the door begins to close - the advice is not to attempt to leave the train, as per the signs that should be displayed close to the doors. In reality, most will panic and fling themselves or their luggage straight at the doors in a desperate effort not to be overcarried! Some stock has doors which you can quite easily overpower, 150 & 158 etc, but equally some doors can be a tad nasty; I certainly wouldn't argue with a 153, and even the Pacers can swing shut with a fairly decisive bang! Be careful out there!

 

[GB]

Obviously preventing injury is a little different and to be honest unless you are trying to beat the doors its very unlikly you will get trapped.

I have to say I find it hard to believe that a train has just stopped at a station and the dispatch procedure has been started before all the passengers have got off and before any passengers have got on. Seems abit odd.

 

[scotsman]

I wouldn't argue with a Desiro's doors

 

[Tom B]

Obviously preventing injury is a little different and to be honest unless you are trying to beat the doors its very unlikly you will get trapped.

I have to say I find it hard to believe that a train has just stopped at a station and the dispatch procedure has been started before all the passengers have got off and before any passengers have got on. Seems abit odd.

On an overcrowded East Coast service a few weeks ago, the staff were trying to make up time by shortening station stops - this left some passengers only getting off as the door alarms started to sound. (The staff were probably too busy complaining over the PA about passengers "obstructing the gangways", as if passengers were standing out of choice).