Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Robertj21a]

If the line closes, we'd lose one of the most charming lines in the country. It's not all about money.

Well, it is actually, if there isn't any !

 

[A0wen]

Well, it is actually, if there isn't any !

Quite - and the problem with the Island Line is the infrastructure cannot last forever. Which is why a long hard look is needed to work out the best step for this. It *could* be light rail with reduced signalling requirements, lighter rolling stock etc which would actually offer a better service.

There is a school of thought that extending the steam railway to St Johns would be helpful - certainly from a tourist perspective it wouldn't hurt.

The rest of the network could be singled with passing loops at St Johns, Brading and Sandown which would allow pretty much any timetable permutation.

 

[Harbouring]

Aren't there two flaws with that (at least one of which may be urban legend):

1. The influx of traffic would cripple the island's road network
2. Grey squirrels would be able to access the island, and would threaten the red squirrel population

?

3. Where are you going to put a bridge across one of the most uses waterways in the country. If you sit on the beach at Portsmouth you'll see that movements to and from Southampton are almost constant and use some of the largest cruise and container ships afloat.

If it was further west then its further away from where people want to get to on the mainland.

To me the only way to stop the usage decline would be to have it integrated with (run by?) Southern Vectis. A knackered old railway can barely compete with what is probably the best (in quality, frequency and coverage) rural bus service in the UK, possibly even in the world. (It's a bit expensive but the tourists seem not to mind and it's free for passholders anyway).

But realistically it should probably close. A battery powered golf buggy style shuttle or two, or some kind of automated lightweight pier tram/rubber tyred shuttle, would do the job for the passengers who can't/won't walk the pier. (To most people it's a not unpleasant walk unless the weather is terrible - possibly part of the walkway could be enclosed to solve that).

But if the pier is that knackered, should it be demolished and the catamaran perhaps run to Cowes instead? Plenty of Cowes-Ryde buses. [edit: fixed]

I think the wightlink pier has been reported as being in good condition after maintence and no reason for them to move.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite - and the problem with the Island Line is the infrastructure cannot last forever. Which is why a long hard look is needed to work out the best step for this. It *could* be light rail with reduced signalling requirements, lighter rolling stock etc which would actually offer a better service.

I certainly think some kind of light rail is just about its only hope to continue long-term as an operating public transport railway. And even then only if integration (and therefore removal of duplication) with Southern Vectis can be achieved.

 

[Suraggu]

If it is losing money and less people are travelling personally it is time to close down the line. Rip it up and make an express roadway.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It was given a lifeline in 1966 - 67 with a very cheap and sensible electrification , the needs and value are now (regrettably) a lot different. I suspect even the pre nationalised railway would have thrown in the towel by now .....

 

[Harbouring]

The issue with the buses is time taken to Shanklin and Sandown as the roads are not conducive to express transit. Maybe a Rapid bus system on the track bed of the railway from say St Johns Road southwards (starting from esplanade) down to Shanklin then maybe connected to Ventnor

It's been somewhat successful in Gosport

 

[Bletchleyite]

That (a dedicated road, not a misguided busway) might not be an altogether terrible idea.

 

[ainsworth74]

It was given a lifeline in 1966 - 67 with a very cheap and sensible electrification , the needs and value are now (regrettably) a lot different. I suspect even the pre nationalised railway would have thrown in the towel by now .....

Yes it's interesting that Privitisation has almost frozen the railway to a great extent. We have what we have and we must run and keep it (with a few exceptions)! I can't help but feel that BR and the pre-nationalisation railway would have also thrown in the towel by now but because of the way that franchising has worked out it soldiers on for now.

Having used it this weekend I must admit my gut reaction is simply to shut the whole thing down. The bus service is excellent (and I speak as someone who isn't a fan of buses) and blows the service offered by the line out of the water. If it had somehow maintained a link from Ryde to Ventnor and Newport there maybe more of a case for investing and upgrading the line but in it's present form it's a dead duck. Put it out of its misery and either convert parts of it to a tramway or just give up the whole lot (though probably allow the steam railway to extend to Ryde St John's road).

 

[BestWestern]

Yes it's interesting that Privitisation has almost frozen the railway to a great extent. We have what we have and we must run and keep it (with a few exceptions)! I can't help but feel that BR and the pre-nationalisation railway would have also thrown in the towel by now but because of the way that franchising has worked out it soldiers on for now.

Having used it this weekend I must admit my gut reaction is simply to shut the whole thing down. The bus service is excellent (and I speak as someone who isn't a fan of buses) and blows the service offered by the line out of the water. If if a a had somehow maintained a link from Ryde to Ventnor and Newport there maybe more of a case for investing and upgrading the line but in it's present form it's a dead duck. Put it out of its misery and either convert parts of it to a tramway or just give up the whole lot (though probably allow the steam railway to extend to Ryde St John's road).

Having also used it this weekend, I think that's a tad misleading. Ryde to Sandown or Shanklin is a meandering trek by bus, it's a far easier journey by rail. The service I departed Shanklin on was full and standing, not bad for an October Sunday. That's departing from a station that had an almost constant flow of free 'Beer and Buses' services arriving and departing, too. Accommodation was dirt cheap that end of the island even booking on the day, so if it was a sudden mass influx of tourists the hotel trade didn't appear to have noticed. I think there is a glaring problem with lack of effective revenue collection, but I don't think total closure is an ideal solution.

 

[ainsworth74]

The service I departed Shanklin on was full and standing, not bad for an October Sunday. That's departing from a station that had an almost constant flow of free 'Beer and Buses' services arriving and departing, too.

Ha may have unknowingly bumped into you in that case as there were several other Forumites on the island this weekend!

But surely that's just it the services were busy but there was an event on to drive that demand. I wonder how busy it'll be next weekend?

 

[trash80]

I thought the IOWSR have already said they don't want to extend to Ryde SJ?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Having also used it this weekend, I think that's a tad misleading. Ryde to Sandown or Shanklin is a meandering trek by bus, ...

Not if you close the railway and create a dedicated busway as others have suggested

 

[cav1975]

I thought the IOWSR have already said they don't want to extend to Ryde SJ?

They have said the opposite, but they do not want to take over Ryde to Shanklin.

 

[edwin_m]

Another long shot:

Get hold of some of the DLR units soon to be superseded. Apart from the door mechanisms, most of the clever stuff on these is under the floor, so cut off the upper superstructure and re-build with something that fits the gauge. If driverless is a step too far, provide a cab partition and ergonomic seat in front of the existing controls.

 

[BestWestern]

They have said the opposite, but they do not want to take over Ryde to Shanklin.

So then who would run RSJ to the pier?!

 

[BestWestern]

Another long shot:

Get hold of some of the DLR units soon to be superseded. Apart from the door mechanisms, most of the clever stuff on these is under the floor, so cut off the upper superstructure and re-build with something that fits the gauge. If driverless is a step too far, provide a cab partition and ergonomic seat in front of the existing controls.

Unless they're separate body-on-chassis surely that would fail current crash standards?

 

[BestWestern]

Ha may have unknowingly bumped into you in that case as there were several other Forumites on the island this weekend!

But surely that's just it the services were busy but there was an event on to drive that demand. I wonder how busy it'll be next weekend?

Might well have done!! It seemed to me to be a mix of families, locals and beer & bus types, but I'm sure the event certainly makes a difference, yes. But again, there were free buses lined up outside! Although I suppose for many the attendees of the event a ride on 'the Tube' is a must!

 

[DenmarkRail]

When Berlin U55 joins up with the rest of the U5, wouldn’t it be possible for the older U55 stock to get through the Ryde tunnel? They’ll be free from 2019, and seem pretty reliable.

 

[yorksrob]

There seems to be a lot of defeatism on this thread.
The route may not have as many passengers as in the bucket and spade heyday, but it has more than enough passengers to justify continued services.

Yes, its island nature makes it a little more expensive to run than would normally be the case for a social railway, but luckily it is next door to one of the most profitable commuter railways in the country which can cross-subsidise it.

 

[DenmarkRail]

When Berlin U55 joins up with the rest of the U5, wouldn’t it be possible for the older U55 stock to get through the Ryde tunnel? They’ll be free from 2019, and seem pretty reliable.

Another point being, everyone seems to over look foreign stock, when really.... It would work best for this route

 

[Stroud Valleys]

It sounds like swr has got rolling stock in mind and it is clear there isn't any suitable stock in the uk without major changes to the infrastructure. Possibly the best solution is to consider foreign rolling stock.

In an ideal world i would have hoped for a massive investment plan but privatisation has not helped the island line.

It would be nice if trains could use the current stram railway and extend into newport and reopen the lines between newport and Sandown and ventnor and allpw steam trains to run where they are able to but unless someone has a large amount of cash and a big long term then this isn't going to happen.

The plus side is that first have a good track record with smaller branch lines compared with stagecoach and i hope the island line will be more successful in the coming years compared with before

 

[Bletchleyite]

So then who would run RSJ to the pier?!

Southern Vectis (to Esplanade) and an electric minibus (to the end of the pier). Or something like the old battery Southport pier tram.

 

[Mikey C]

Politically, I can't imagine any Transport Secretary wanting to authorise the closure of a railway, it's just not something any politician will want on their cv, so I'd be very surprised if it closed completely.

It is a bit of a token railway for the IoW though, and when the rest of the island is very well covered by an efficient bus network, and relatively empty roads, it does struggle to justify significant investment.

 

[Olaf]

.. It's not all about money.

Based on the approach set-up by the DfT, that is what it has finally come to.

If the IWC commits to keeping the service going, even with only a few coats of paint, it is effectively committing to finding significant funding not far down the road. It might get extra funds from various Whitehall Departments, but none of that will be enough in its own right. So if the IWC does commit to large sums, it is got to sell that to the electorate vs investments elsewhere on the Island. Realistically, it can not source enough funds to cover all that is required without seriously impacting other projects on the Island competing for the funds.

 

[Olaf]

Yes, its island nature makes it a little more expensive to run than would normally be the case for a social railway, but luckily it is next door to one of the most profitable commuter railways in the country which can cross-subsidise it.

Not anymore; it's funding is now up to the IWC and the operator.

 

[trash80]

They have said the opposite, but they do not want to take over Ryde to Shanklin.

OK but i'm sure i read in one of the magazines last year or so they didn't want to take over any of the line when the idea was mooted.

 

[trash80]

There seems to be a lot of defeatism on this thread.
The route may not have as many passengers as in the bucket and spade heyday, but it has more than enough passengers to justify continued services.

Yes, its island nature makes it a little more expensive to run than would normally be the case for a social railway, but luckily it is next door to one of the most profitable commuter railways in the country which can cross-subsidise it.

I think money has to be found somewhere, keeping the line viable for a few more decades would be spare change compared to some of the other projects going on at the moment

 

[yorksrob]

Not anymore; it's funding is now up to the IWC and the operator.

All the more reason why the line needs to be wrapped up in the South Western franchise.

 

[A0wen]

In an ideal world i would have hoped for a massive investment plan but privatisation has not helped the island line.

The Island Line didn't exactly fare well under nationalisation either - that saw the route mileage cut back to what's left today and the continual recycling of 50 year old tube trains. Hardly delivering a step change improvement.