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Public Misconceptions!

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Ivo

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One from today...A ticket from London Terminals to Derby route Any Permitted is valid to travel Marylebone - Banbury/Leamington Spa/Birmingham - Derby.

Bet the passenger in question had a good argument on CrossCountry when they changed trains. :rolleyes:

I can almost believe that one is permissible. Almost.

But alas, one can only get as far as Tamworth heading towards Birmingham before it becomes invalid.

Southern Only tickets are not valid on "Gatwick Express" services.

I already said that (Post #23) :|
 
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Zoe

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One advantageous misconception to those "in the loop" is the fact you have to sit in the reserved seat that accompanies your Adavanced 1st Class Ticket.

Hence on East Coast where they are all packed into Coach M you can utilise a "four" for sole use in an carriage that will be virtually empty.
It is a requirement that you sit in your reserved seat although this seems to be rarely enforced. I don't quite see how this is going to get anyone sole use of four seats though.
 

Zoe

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The Gatwick Express issue has been discussed quite a few times. Hasn't the situation been clarified now?
 

barrykas

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Reckon that could have been deemed "reasonable" under BR?

I have a sneaky suspicion that it may have been a (mapped) route in early editions of the Routeing Guide, on the erstwhile map CS.

The current version, however, only permits routes from St Pancras or from Euston via Tamworth.

Ignoring journey time for a moment, eNRT distances are as follows:

  • St Pancras - Derby : 128.5 miles
  • Euston - Tamworth - Derby : 134 miles
  • Marylebone - Birmingham - Derby : 151.5 miles

At over 20 miles further than the most direct route, I wouldn't hesitate to call it off route even without a Routeing Guide check.

Cheers,

Barry
 

calc7

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I have a sneaky suspicion that it may have been a (mapped) route in early editions of the Routeing Guide, on the erstwhile map CS.

The current version, however, only permits routes from St Pancras or from Euston via Tamworth.

Ignoring journey time for a moment, eNRT distances are as follows:

  • St Pancras - Derby : 128.5 miles
  • Euston - Tamworth - Derby : 134 miles
  • Marylebone - Birmingham - Derby : 151.5 miles

At over 20 miles further than the most direct route, I wouldn't hesitate to call it off route even without a Routeing Guide check.

Cheers,

Barry

Nice analysis.
For me, a medium-distance route is typically feasible if you are always "going towards" your destination, if you see what I mean. At no point on MYB-BMO-BHM-DBY are you making a more expensive journey (well, if you are, this is only down to who prices the fares) - restricting routes seems to be more of a revenue thing (both in maximising and ease of dividing amongst the TOCs) which is not of concern to the average passenger. This wasn't an issue when BR ran it all.
I do agree, though, I would have automatically thought via BAN was almost certainly not allowed! Incidentally, I wonder if one held a ticket from London to somewhere on the Stoke-Derby line that it would permit such a choice of routes.
 

Ivo

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At over 20 miles further than the most direct route, I wouldn't hesitate to call it off route even without a Routeing Guide check.

But how would you define 20 miles in relation to other routes? My most ridiculous route ever attempted comes out as 652 miles (and even then it's probably higher, but Railmiles only allows six via points when I really need up to ten) against a "standard" route distance of 449. This is somewhat more as a proportion than 151 against 128, but was perfectly valid.

20 is 13% of 151. 203 is more than double that in comparison to 652.
 

brillopad

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The minority. Part of the problem is that quite a lot of the regulations are based around archaic acts, which are hard to read, digest, and understand. Another part of the problem is that they are not widely advertised - how many passengers will know of the 1889 act for example?

It goes without saying that ignorance is not an excuse.

I have the Bye Laws on my smart phone.
 

bb21

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Must stress if this turns up from a search the following are NOT true

Advance fares are always the cheapest option.

There are three types of fares: Anytime, Off-Peak and Advance, for all journeys.
 
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Butts

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It is a requirement that you sit in your reserved seat although this seems to be rarely enforced. I don't quite see how this is going to get anyone sole use of four seats though.

If everyone sits in their allocated seat and coach the only passengers to come into your alternative carriage will be walk ups who are quite rare.(especially off peak when I travel):p
 

bnm

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If everyone sits in their allocated seat and coach the only passengers to come into your alternative carriage will be walk ups who are quite rare.(especially off peak when I travel):p

I'd disagree that walk-ups are the rarity. Ticket sales figures do not bear out that hypothesis. According to ATOC, figures for sales of reduced price tickets (Advance, Off Peak, Super Off Peak) show that Advance Purchase sales are only around 12% of the combined total of Off Peak and Super Off Peak.

From February 2011 - February 2012 sales figures were:

Off Peak: 363 million
Super Off Peak: 36.6 million
Advance Purchase 48.1 million

And not to forget, some seat reservations will be made by people that have purchased 'walk-up' tickets.
 

34D

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I'd imagine thats why it's posted in a topic entitled "public misconceptions".


Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

In that case, can I suggest in this thread, that people make it clear whether they are listing a misconception or giving truthful correct comment on the points made by others.

I'd almost suggest that a mod goes through the whole lot and adds the word "misconception" in each individual post - remember people may see no more of this than a google search page with the information they want to see on it.
 

sbt

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With regard to explaining the consequences and rules I have to say that the posters regarding prosecutions are a failure.

Yes they explain that someone incurred quite severe consequences but they don't explain _why_ they were taken to court when most peoples experience is with the Excess Fares system.

What they do achieve is reinforce the view that those of us who commute and pay their fares that we are regarded not as Passengers, nor Customers, but 'Fare Dodgers who haven't been caught yet'.

They certainly don't seem to deter the persistent 'chancers' who I still see getting their Penalty Fare with monotonous regularity. Nor do they advise the foreign visitors with who booked Advance tickets with their Ferry that they may only travel on specific trains. - I see their welcome to Britain being a swinging addition to their travel costs not quite as frequently but certainly regularly. I do wonder if this results in a net loss of revenue as I would certainly avoid travelling by train in another country if hit by a heavy extra charge I didn't fully understand (as many of the visitors seem not to do) on my first journey.

There used to be a sign telling me when 'Off Peak' was at my local station. It is now gone, replaced by insulting on-train announcements that 'You must have a valid ticket...' without explanation anywhere easily available to normal travellers about what a 'valid ticket' is. At least SWT now announce at Havant on Northbound trains that people with 'Southern Only' Tickets should leave the service, rather than simply pocketing the Excess Fare.
 

moonrakerz

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1. Things were better under BR.
2. Things were even better when under BR - AND steam hauled.
 

MidnightFlyer

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The Gatwick Express issue has been discussed quite a few times. Hasn't the situation been clarified now?

Nope, Southern are still adament that GX is a separate company where it suits. Pretty remarkable when you bear in mind the stacks of evidence which counter that claim.

 

IanD

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Break of Journey is permitted on Advance tickets (I use to believe this one myself before)

To be more accurate, break of journey is only NOT pemitted on AN Advance ticket ie between the two locations printed on your ticket.

If you are using split tickets for your journey, you can break your journey at any point where you split tickets if you have time between each train you're booked on.

Yesterday, for my 'journey' from Sheffield to Milton Keynes, I had 2 advances: Sheffield to Birmingham and Birmingham to MK with a 40 minute connection. I had no problem leaving New Street and returning 30 minutes later to resume my 'journey'.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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To be more accurate, break of journey is only NOT pemitted on AN Advance ticket ie between the two locations printed on your ticket.

If you are using split tickets for your journey, you can break your journey at any point where you split tickets if you have time between each train you're booked on.

Yesterday, for my 'journey' from Sheffield to Milton Keynes, I had 2 advances: Sheffield to Birmingham and Birmingham to MK with a 40 minute connection. I had no problem leaving New Street and returning 30 minutes later to resume my 'journey'.

To back you up, I've got off at BHM to get a McDonalds while my connection arrived.
 

bb21

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In that case, can I suggest in this thread, that people make it clear whether they are listing a misconception or giving truthful correct comment on the points made by others.

I'd almost suggest that a mod goes through the whole lot and adds the word "misconception" in each individual post - remember people may see no more of this than a google search page with the information they want to see on it.

OK, I've edited mine.

I can't just go around and edit everyone's posts, as I don't want to make assumptions about people's claims, barring the most obvious ones.
 

island

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One advantageous misconception to those "in the loop" is the fact you have to sit in the reserved seat that accompanies your Adavanced 1st Class Ticket.

Not quite a misconception; you do have to use your booked seat but it isn't enforced.

Edit: looks like I'm a bit behind!
 
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trentside

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Must stress if this turns up from a search the following is NOT true

Another misconception - Voyagers are horrible! They actually are not!

Sorry, Tomonthetrain - that one was too easy :lol:

Another misconception I witnessed recently that is definitely NOT true; that if there aren't regular ticket checks you don't need to buy a ticket because you'll probably get away with it. Cue an RPI, PF and removal from the train for the 'gentleman'.
 

island

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You can buy on board or at your destination if your starting station does not have a booking office and you want a rover or other ticket not sold by the machine.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There used to be a sign telling me when 'Off Peak' was at my local station. It is now gone, replaced by insulting on-train announcements that 'You must have a valid ticket...' without explanation anywhere easily available to normal travellers about what a 'valid ticket' is. At least SWT now announce at Havant on Northbound trains that people with 'Southern Only' Tickets should leave the service, rather than simply pocketing the Excess Fare.

On the first bit, might that be because there are lots of off-peak times these days? In the extreme case a Portsmouth Central to Peterborough off-peak ticket is completely unrestricted out of Portsmouth!

For the second, you've generated another misconception! Southern only ticket on SWT isn't an excess, it's a new ticket or penalty fare.
 

SS4

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Birmingham New Street is **** appears to be a misconception ;)

Route: High Wycombe is only valid on Chiltern [to/from BMO/MYB]
 

trentside

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You can buy on board or at your destination if your starting station does not have a booking office and you want a rover or other ticket not sold by the machine.

Sorry, I should have made my point clearer - I was referring to a journey starting from a staffed station. The gentleman in question was boasting about how he regularly 'got away with it'. He didn't mention how he got around the ticket barriers at the other end, though.
 

ert47

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Must stress if this turns up from a search the following is NOT true

Standing on the right is optional while on the escalators on the Underground.

[one I've heard on the new routemaster in London] Buses can make announcements telling people to move down the bus because its a hybrid.
 

MarkyMarkD

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On the first bit, might that be because there are lots of off-peak times these days? In the extreme case a Portsmouth Central to Peterborough off-peak ticket is completely unrestricted out of Portsmouth!
Exactly my point. A Chiltern route Super Off Peak from Chatham to (say) Stratford-upon-Avon is valid for travel departing Chatham 24/7/365. The restrictions only apply to journeys the other way - TOWARDS London (am) or OUT OF London (pm), presumably because those are the peaks Chiltern care about and they set the fare.

When I said TOCs should give their staff a list of off-peak times, I meant a list showing the off-peak times, for each restriction, for each station. They could display this to customers too, to be helpful, once the restriction codes are shown on the tickets.

It would avoid people inadvertently buying a peak ticket instead of a super offpeak, in the scenario I set out above, believing that "it must be peak because it's 0800 (or whatever)".
 

Urban Gateline

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For the second, you've generated another misconception! Southern only ticket on SWT isn't an excess, it's a new ticket or penalty fare.

Unless it's a Southern only Travelcard, which can be used unlimited times within Z1-6 on SWT services, subject to time restrictions (off-peak and Super off-peak)
 

DaveNewcastle

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Eleven Public Misconceptions:

1. The definition of "Off-Peak" for UK rail travel is simple enough for any member of the public or member of staff to remember it.

2. If in doubt, always ask 'the man on the platform' who will then give you permission to travel on any train you want.

3. The correct fare for your journey will always be whatever you have already paid if any one of the details on the ticket corresponds to your journey.

4. Since ATOC 'Simplified' railway ticketing, fares and tickets have become 'Simple'.

5. Railway staff on platforms blow their whistle to tell passengers that its time to start collecting bags and stroll over to the train that has been standing on the platform for a few minutes.

6. When travelling on a busy train with a Standard Class ticket it is always possible to sit in a First Class seat.

7. Railcards should always be kept in a safe place, and not taken with you on journeys away from home in case they become lost.

8. Train drivers can follow whatever route they choose to avoid any delays ahead.

9. On electric railways, the power is always turned off as soon as a train has passed to make it safer.

10. Trespassing on the Railway is as harmless as walking across the supermarket car park.

11. The reason for Railway Privitisation was to shake off the shabby image of "the British Rail sandwich" and replace it with exciting new retail opportunities offering more expensive sandwiches.
 
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