Public Misconceptions!

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Ferret, 24 Mar 2012.

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  1. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    I can almost believe that one is permissible. Almost.

    But alas, one can only get as far as Tamworth heading towards Birmingham before it becomes invalid.

    I already said that (Post #23) :|
     
  2. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    It is a requirement that you sit in your reserved seat although this seems to be rarely enforced. I don't quite see how this is going to get anyone sole use of four seats though.
     
  3. calc7

    calc7 Established Member

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    My apologies! 8-)
     
  4. Zoe

    Zoe Established Member

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    The Gatwick Express issue has been discussed quite a few times. Hasn't the situation been clarified now?
     
  5. barrykas

    barrykas Established Member

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    I have a sneaky suspicion that it may have been a (mapped) route in early editions of the Routeing Guide, on the erstwhile map CS.

    The current version, however, only permits routes from St Pancras or from Euston via Tamworth.

    Ignoring journey time for a moment, eNRT distances are as follows:

    • St Pancras - Derby : 128.5 miles
    • Euston - Tamworth - Derby : 134 miles
    • Marylebone - Birmingham - Derby : 151.5 miles

    At over 20 miles further than the most direct route, I wouldn't hesitate to call it off route even without a Routeing Guide check.

    Cheers,

    Barry
     
  6. calc7

    calc7 Established Member

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    Nice analysis.
    For me, a medium-distance route is typically feasible if you are always "going towards" your destination, if you see what I mean. At no point on MYB-BMO-BHM-DBY are you making a more expensive journey (well, if you are, this is only down to who prices the fares) - restricting routes seems to be more of a revenue thing (both in maximising and ease of dividing amongst the TOCs) which is not of concern to the average passenger. This wasn't an issue when BR ran it all.
    I do agree, though, I would have automatically thought via BAN was almost certainly not allowed! Incidentally, I wonder if one held a ticket from London to somewhere on the Stoke-Derby line that it would permit such a choice of routes.
     
  7. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    But how would you define 20 miles in relation to other routes? My most ridiculous route ever attempted comes out as 652 miles (and even then it's probably higher, but Railmiles only allows six via points when I really need up to ten) against a "standard" route distance of 449. This is somewhat more as a proportion than 151 against 128, but was perfectly valid.

    20 is 13% of 151. 203 is more than double that in comparison to 652.
     
  8. brillopad

    brillopad Member

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    I have the Bye Laws on my smart phone.
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Must stress if this turns up from a search the following are NOT true

    Advance fares are always the cheapest option.

    There are three types of fares: Anytime, Off-Peak and Advance, for all journeys.
     
    Last edited: 25 Mar 2012
  10. Butts

    Butts Established Member

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    If everyone sits in their allocated seat and coach the only passengers to come into your alternative carriage will be walk ups who are quite rare.(especially off peak when I travel):p
     
  11. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    This is not actually always correct.
     
  12. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    I'd imagine thats why it's posted in a topic entitled "public misconceptions".


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
     
  13. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    I'd disagree that walk-ups are the rarity. Ticket sales figures do not bear out that hypothesis. According to ATOC, figures for sales of reduced price tickets (Advance, Off Peak, Super Off Peak) show that Advance Purchase sales are only around 12% of the combined total of Off Peak and Super Off Peak.

    From February 2011 - February 2012 sales figures were:

    Off Peak: 363 million
    Super Off Peak: 36.6 million
    Advance Purchase 48.1 million

    And not to forget, some seat reservations will be made by people that have purchased 'walk-up' tickets.
     
  14. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    In that case, can I suggest in this thread, that people make it clear whether they are listing a misconception or giving truthful correct comment on the points made by others.

    I'd almost suggest that a mod goes through the whole lot and adds the word "misconception" in each individual post - remember people may see no more of this than a google search page with the information they want to see on it.
     
  15. sbt

    sbt Member

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    With regard to explaining the consequences and rules I have to say that the posters regarding prosecutions are a failure.

    Yes they explain that someone incurred quite severe consequences but they don't explain _why_ they were taken to court when most peoples experience is with the Excess Fares system.

    What they do achieve is reinforce the view that those of us who commute and pay their fares that we are regarded not as Passengers, nor Customers, but 'Fare Dodgers who haven't been caught yet'.

    They certainly don't seem to deter the persistent 'chancers' who I still see getting their Penalty Fare with monotonous regularity. Nor do they advise the foreign visitors with who booked Advance tickets with their Ferry that they may only travel on specific trains. - I see their welcome to Britain being a swinging addition to their travel costs not quite as frequently but certainly regularly. I do wonder if this results in a net loss of revenue as I would certainly avoid travelling by train in another country if hit by a heavy extra charge I didn't fully understand (as many of the visitors seem not to do) on my first journey.

    There used to be a sign telling me when 'Off Peak' was at my local station. It is now gone, replaced by insulting on-train announcements that 'You must have a valid ticket...' without explanation anywhere easily available to normal travellers about what a 'valid ticket' is. At least SWT now announce at Havant on Northbound trains that people with 'Southern Only' Tickets should leave the service, rather than simply pocketing the Excess Fare.
     
  16. moonrakerz

    moonrakerz Member

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    1. Things were better under BR.
    2. Things were even better when under BR - AND steam hauled.
     
  17. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Nope, Southern are still adament that GX is a separate company where it suits. Pretty remarkable when you bear in mind the stacks of evidence which counter that claim.

     
  18. IanD

    IanD Established Member

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    To be more accurate, break of journey is only NOT pemitted on AN Advance ticket ie between the two locations printed on your ticket.

    If you are using split tickets for your journey, you can break your journey at any point where you split tickets if you have time between each train you're booked on.

    Yesterday, for my 'journey' from Sheffield to Milton Keynes, I had 2 advances: Sheffield to Birmingham and Birmingham to MK with a 40 minute connection. I had no problem leaving New Street and returning 30 minutes later to resume my 'journey'.
     
  19. VTPreston_Tez

    VTPreston_Tez Established Member

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    To back you up, I've got off at BHM to get a McDonalds while my connection arrived.
     
  20. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    OK, I've edited mine.

    I can't just go around and edit everyone's posts, as I don't want to make assumptions about people's claims, barring the most obvious ones.
     
  21. Tomonthetrain

    Tomonthetrain Established Member

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    Another misconception - Voyagers are horrible! They actually are not!
     
  22. island

    island Established Member

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    Not quite a misconception; you do have to use your booked seat but it isn't enforced.

    Edit: looks like I'm a bit behind!
     
    Last edited: 25 Mar 2012
  23. trentside

    trentside Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Must stress if this turns up from a search the following is NOT true

    Sorry, Tomonthetrain - that one was too easy :lol:

    Another misconception I witnessed recently that is definitely NOT true; that if there aren't regular ticket checks you don't need to buy a ticket because you'll probably get away with it. Cue an RPI, PF and removal from the train for the 'gentleman'.
     
  24. island

    island Established Member

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    You can buy on board or at your destination if your starting station does not have a booking office and you want a rover or other ticket not sold by the machine.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    On the first bit, might that be because there are lots of off-peak times these days? In the extreme case a Portsmouth Central to Peterborough off-peak ticket is completely unrestricted out of Portsmouth!

    For the second, you've generated another misconception! Southern only ticket on SWT isn't an excess, it's a new ticket or penalty fare.
     
  25. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    Birmingham New Street is **** appears to be a misconception ;)

    Route: High Wycombe is only valid on Chiltern [to/from BMO/MYB]
     
  26. trentside

    trentside Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Sorry, I should have made my point clearer - I was referring to a journey starting from a staffed station. The gentleman in question was boasting about how he regularly 'got away with it'. He didn't mention how he got around the ticket barriers at the other end, though.
     
  27. ert47

    ert47 Member

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    Must stress if this turns up from a search the following is NOT true

    Standing on the right is optional while on the escalators on the Underground.

    [one I've heard on the new routemaster in London] Buses can make announcements telling people to move down the bus because its a hybrid.
     
  28. MarkyMarkD

    MarkyMarkD Member

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    Exactly my point. A Chiltern route Super Off Peak from Chatham to (say) Stratford-upon-Avon is valid for travel departing Chatham 24/7/365. The restrictions only apply to journeys the other way - TOWARDS London (am) or OUT OF London (pm), presumably because those are the peaks Chiltern care about and they set the fare.

    When I said TOCs should give their staff a list of off-peak times, I meant a list showing the off-peak times, for each restriction, for each station. They could display this to customers too, to be helpful, once the restriction codes are shown on the tickets.

    It would avoid people inadvertently buying a peak ticket instead of a super offpeak, in the scenario I set out above, believing that "it must be peak because it's 0800 (or whatever)".
     
  29. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    Unless it's a Southern only Travelcard, which can be used unlimited times within Z1-6 on SWT services, subject to time restrictions (off-peak and Super off-peak)
     
  30. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Eleven Public Misconceptions:

    1. The definition of "Off-Peak" for UK rail travel is simple enough for any member of the public or member of staff to remember it.

    2. If in doubt, always ask 'the man on the platform' who will then give you permission to travel on any train you want.

    3. The correct fare for your journey will always be whatever you have already paid if any one of the details on the ticket corresponds to your journey.

    4. Since ATOC 'Simplified' railway ticketing, fares and tickets have become 'Simple'.

    5. Railway staff on platforms blow their whistle to tell passengers that its time to start collecting bags and stroll over to the train that has been standing on the platform for a few minutes.

    6. When travelling on a busy train with a Standard Class ticket it is always possible to sit in a First Class seat.

    7. Railcards should always be kept in a safe place, and not taken with you on journeys away from home in case they become lost.

    8. Train drivers can follow whatever route they choose to avoid any delays ahead.

    9. On electric railways, the power is always turned off as soon as a train has passed to make it safer.

    10. Trespassing on the Railway is as harmless as walking across the supermarket car park.

    11. The reason for Railway Privitisation was to shake off the shabby image of "the British Rail sandwich" and replace it with exciting new retail opportunities offering more expensive sandwiches.
     
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