Usual pish I see. This place really is so predictable nowadays. DOO this, Bob Crow that, unions bad, staff lazy, etc etc etc.
So someone disagrees with your point of view and that is your response...wow!! Almost as immature as many of Bob Crow's comments! As for the safety issue raised in another post. What if in the accident the guard was with the driver and also injured then who deals with safety...clearly we need 2 guards but what if they are both injured ...and so on and before long the train is nothing but guards! I agree 2 is better than 1 but in this case not by much as we have mobiles now so passengers can notify authorities just as easily. I agree the information won't be as precise but it wouldn't take more than a few seconds to figure out the required details.
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They do I agree...we have thousands of jobs that are not needed but can't be gotten rid of due to the RMT. As a result we pay much higher train fares...so thanks RMT. A train service in the 21st century with a union from the 18th century.
you ask the majority of DOO drivers what they prefer, with or without a guard, the majority would easily say WITH.
I don't doubt it but like any other industry the railway isn't run for the employees.
sounds like a Troll to me..btw Train fare rises the government pockets the RMT "members like myself" certainly do not! you certainly have zero idea what the guards role is, maybe you should spend a few hours reading the rule book, learning traction, learning the routes and them tickets and customer service, takes about 3 months on average, you ask the majority of DOO drivers what they prefer, with or without a guard, the majority would easily say WITH.
I didn't say RMT members pocketed train fare rises (but why let facts get in the way of things). I said fares are higher due to having to pay more staff than are actually needed. Yes the government set the fares but the rises would be lower or actually probably reductions if cost savings could be achieved and removing guards is one massive cost saving. Of course DOO drivers would say they prefer having a guard as I too would prefer to have someone else to help with my job but it doesn't mean it is necessary. I'm not saying you don't have much to learn to be a guard either I am just saying its not a needed position. Also as someone else just said where is you evidence to back up that a DOO train is less safe in an accident/incident. People still jump off of SWT and SET trains and walk down the tracks all the time during disruption despite guards being present.
It's funny how anyone criticising anything to do with guards on here is automatically chastised or accused of trolling. I realise it is your livelihood but that doesn't make it an essential job. It also doesn't automatically make your view correct.
It's funny how anyone criticising anything to do with guards on here is automatically chastised or accused of trolling. I realise it is your livelihood but that doesn't make it an essential job. It also doesn't automatically make your view correct.
It's funny how anyone criticising anything to do with guards on here is automatically chastised or accused of trolling. I realise it is your livelihood but that doesn't make it an essential job. It also doesn't automatically make your view correct.
Ah yes Embers, because a passenger involved in an accident has a route card which he signs to say he's competent on the route he is taking each and every time he buys a ticket? Trolling? I'm not sure. Flawed argument? Oh yes.
...and Virgin could benefit from work experiencers being trolley workers/extra guards in this context
Claiming the same thing over and over without substantiation is flaming though
This is an interesting one as several times now my train has been diverted via the West Midlands due to issues on the Trent Valley and each time when asked where we are going or where we are right now the guard had no clue other than that we had been diverted because we turned off at Rugby. Great route knowledge. Also in the last case the passengers had to inform the guard we were diverted as he hadn't even realised so that would have been useful if we had crashed. I also didn't say the passengers would have route competency just that a quick mobile call to 999 and even if they only said which train they were on the location could easily be ascertained.
I haven't seen any guard or the RMT for that matter provide any substantiated evidence to the contrary either but yet that doesn't matter because Bob Crow is clearly a man of truth and reason who can be trusted!!!
Or the money goes directly into the pockets of TOC management. That's how private companies work, to maximize profit for shareholders. It's not inherently bad by any stretch but to argue that losing staff would cause fares to drop is fallacious.
You still haven't substantiated that there are too many staff.
You're making the statement guards are unnecessary. You need to supply proof this is so. Google burden of proof if you don't believe me.
As for Mr Crow (who has been blamed for everything from drivers strikes to solar flares ) he looks after the interests of his union members. He's upfront and honest which is more than can be said for many of the DfT's bosses. This is without going into anti-union bias in the media which is obvious to all but the hardened right wingers
Whilst I agree vending machines on trains does seem to be a good idea the idea that the guards job is "highly skilled" is a bit of a stretch! On most days all they do is open/close doors and check tickets and that's on lines where they still have to open the doors. Most trains even have auto-announcements now. Actually most don't even check tickets now. On all my recent Pendolino trips up to Carlisle and beyond apart from the doors the guard has either sat in his "office" the whole trip reading the paper or chatted with the shop staff who also spend most of their trip sitting down chatting in the coach. Clearly making sure his newspaper doesn't get stolen is very safety critical. All over the world including the UK trains run as driver only without any issue it's just RMT scaremongering as usual to preserve the pretty much unnecessary role of their members. The significant amount of money that could be saved from abolishing guards through OPO could be passed on in fares reductions to passengers. I know guards claim these savings would be offset by loss in fares revenue which may have been true until guards on many routes stopped checking/issuing tickets anyway. I realise in the event of an accident a guard should be able to assist passengers but OPO trains manage. They also don't usually come running when there are issues with yobs on trains so they certainly aren't there for passenger safety. You may argue dealing with yobs isn't their job but that is all part of train safety so it is their job. A guard is equivalent to a airline steward/ess and yet we expect them to serve us and you don't hear people saying they are risking the planes safety by serving us drinks. Steward/esses also deal with behaviour issues on planes too unlike guards. Now there is a safety critical, passenger safety focussed job guards should try to emulate but then again their paper is way too interesting to tear themselves away from. The same also applies to driverless trains which we accept on Docklands but not on the tube due again to the scaremongering unions.
A lot of people forget that Bob Crow actually works to the instruction of the unions executive committee. He doesn't make the decisions, they do.
It would appear that embers25 has an axe to grind here I don't know what it is though as I fail to understand the argument he's using, owing to the constant contradictions and diversionary tactics.
Why turn this thread into another anti union, anti RMT and anti Bob Crow thread when all the OP did was ask a simple enough question?
Oh... Its raining outside, let's blame Bob Crow
just that a quick mobile call to 999 and even if they only said which train they were on the location could easily be ascertained.
A train service in the 21st century with a union from the 18th century.
You would hope so but the reality is very different. Everytime I have had to dial 999 to get an ambulance to meet a train at a station, the name of the station has not been enough for the operator. They have always wasted precious time asking for a postcode/road name which I wouldn't know off the top of my head. Now some of you may think this is an exaggeration. But I'm sure many of my colleagues will have experienced the same and will confirm. Which is why all requests for paramedics however urgent I now put through our control.
Now if they can't locate a railway station after being given it's full name and county, then I wouldn't hold my breath in them tracking down a train in the middle of nowhere from brief location descriptions from frantic passengers.
OK - as a steward, let me explain what we can do for a customer that a vending machine cannot.
1) Offer sterling change for a €20 note to Irish Ferry passengers who haven't had a chance to visit the BdC in their rush to get on the train.
2) Make the tea or coffee exactly how they like it - six sugars madam? No problem. Only a weak coffee? No problem I'll put extra water in.
3) Have a temperature controlled environment that does not use electricity to keep food and drink cool (dry ice)
4) Take orders for special requests. Approaching a shorebase with a hungry family who want a pile of sandwiches, crisps and coke? No problem.
5) - and this is the most important one - Deliver the food/drink AT THEIR SEAT. No getting up and wandering around a train, leaving your stuff/seat behind for anyone to nick. No carrying hot liquid through carriages with a train bouncing around on badly maintained track. No chance of pressing the wrong button and getting coffee instead of tea.
6) We at ATW are also safety trained in evac and fire procedure, as well as carrying out more rudimentary duties like timetable information and relaying information to passengers such as delays and where to change etc. Try getting that from just talking to a machine.
I think we're needed anyway! (Well I would, wouldn't I?)
As to trains being diverted. The driver MUST stop the train and question the route if it is not what they are booked over. He will also speak to the guard to ensure they both sign the route. I'm afraid I don't believe anyone who says the guard wasn't aware of the train being diverted.
Certainly not for at least 3 'intercity' TOCs. It is now a policy of if a driver is given a route, as long as he signs it, he takes it with no questions asked. VT got arsey when drivers were requesting confirmation for non-booked routes in the Glasgow area that the box was chucking at them to keep the job running smoothly, cost them a few minutes. :roll:
I think a trolley probably suits ATW's needs well. However, I'd still much rather have a buffet/shop AND vending machine on a rammed InterCity train, trolleys just seem to 'get in the way' blocking aisles on busy trains full of luggage and one trolley cannot be in two sets at the same time on stock without gangways (like Voyagers). On rammed trains, they inevitably end up stationed at one end of the train which negates any benefits of an "at seat service". Trolleys seem to have a habit of not being there when needed on certain TOCs as well, which is why I tend to prefer shops/buffets as more permanent catering facilities on core long-distance services.
Ever tried pushing a trolley on a double decker train up and down steps? That's one of the main reasons for vending machines on continental European InterRegional services.
As to trains being diverted. The driver MUST stop the train and question the route if it is not what they are booked over. He will also speak to the guard to ensure they both sign the route. I'm afraid I don't believe anyone who says the guard wasn't aware of the train being diverted.